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View Poll Results: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?
Mayweather would rank higher for me 29 52.73%
Marciano would rank higher for me 24 43.64%
So close it doesn't matter. 2 3.64%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-02-2012, 12:38 PM   #61
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
No offence, but I would take that this is common knowledge, no? Not that Zab is shite but that Zivic was a much better fighter.
According to PP, this is true unless it's used to favour someone over Floyd.

I really don't know why so many stick up for Floyd? Not all that as a fighter, boring to watch, poor resume, and not a particularly nice guy.

Kalambay is greater. I bet there is not one poster who would even have him in their top 100.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #62
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
He gave up weight to beat walcott which was a brilliant victory. Floyd did the same with oscar.

Louis was shot to shit and I don't rate the victory particularly high.

My point being that a shot to shit louis aside, rocky could have fought his entire career in the cw division.
With the same 24 hour weigh in's, titles and weightclasses Floyd has had the luxury of Rocky may well have been a 'champ' from super middle to cruiser.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:40 PM   #63
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

i dont have a top 100 but kalambay is def in it, i like a technician and floyd really has some skills and ring iq
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:45 PM   #64
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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i dont have a top 100 but kalambay is def in it, i like a technician and floyd really has some skills and ring iq
Me too. But give me one that has proven it. I learned more from the Kalambay-McCallum fights (about Sumbu's level) then I have from watching Floyd dissect numerous plodders.

In less impressive fashion than Sumbu did to, for instance, Dewitt.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #65
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
I'm rating Zivic over Judah on the basis that Zab is shite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
No offence, but I would take that this is common knowledge, no? Not that Zab is shite but that Zivic was a much better fighter.
It's common knowledge based on what, because Zivic had about 65 losses? Does that make him the better boxer because they aren't under the microscope? Why don't we rate Emanuel Augustus over Zivic, he looks skilled on film and only has 34 losses

Both are very brief WW champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
According to PP, this is true unless it's used to favour someone over Floyd.

I really don't know why so many stick up for Floyd? Not all that as a fighter, boring to watch, poor resume, and not a particularly nice guy.

Kalambay is greater. I bet there is not one poster who would even have him in their top 100.
Kalambay makes my top 100, so your gripe is he's not particularly nice and a dickhead? I'd certainly agree with the latter but not factor it into my rankings


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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
With the same 24 hour weigh in's, titles and weightclasses Floyd has had the luxury of Rocky may well have been a 'champ' from super middle to cruiser.
That's the thing, Floyd has never weight drained, he's fought at his fighting weight unlike most of today's fighters, including Delahoya and Pacquaio who'd add 15-20lbs for some fights

This is something you have to give kudos to him for, he's often fighting men weighing 10-20lbs more than him
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:51 PM   #66
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

yup, floyd has wasted the opportunity to rank anywhere near marciano. possibly floyd showed his skills best against hatton and de la hoya? kalambay v mcullum is a tactical masterpiece, some of the few fights i watched more than 3 times, especially in monaco
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #67
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
It's not that Mayweather's opponents are so much better than Rocky's, it's just that he's beaten more of them.
It's 49-0 against 42-0

Quote:
Charles, Moore and Walcott were his three top wins and they were all past prime. They were still great boxers and Walcott arguably was better in his older years.

I'm not saying that all of Floyd's wins were prime, but it's hard to argue ****ell, LaStarza, Charles, Moore and Walcott against Hatton, Gatti, Hernandez, De La Hoya, Ortiz, Mosley, Corrales, Castillo, and Marquez.
I'd put Louis, Charles x2, Walcott x2 and Moore as Marciano's best wins.
Layne and LaStarza probably next.

I'll be honest, the names on Floyd's resume that jump out at me the most are guys who were probably just as past prime or more so than the ones on Marciano's.


Quote:
What does being an undisputed champion or being in a traditional weight class matter to how good an opponent is? Would you rank the wins better if they were in a traditional weight class but everything else was the same? That's stupid logic.
If there were only 8 weight classes, and less titles, the rankings and status and reputations of some of these names being mentioned would be really put to the test.


Quote:
Gatti is a good win, considering how he got badly beaten up.
Harry Kid Matthews and Don ****ell are good wins then too.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:55 PM   #68
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
It's common knowledge based on what, because Zivic had about 65 losses? Does that make him the better boxer because they aren't under the microscope? Why don't we rate Emanuel Augustus over Zivic, he looks skilled on film and only has 34 losses

Both are very brief WW champions



Kalambay makes my top 100, so your gripe is he's not particularly nice and a dickhead? I'd certainly agree with the latter but not factor it into my rankings




That's the thing, Floyd has never weight drained, he's fought at his fighting weight unlike most of today's fighters, including Delahoya and Pacquaio who'd add 15-20lbs for some fights

This is something you have to give kudos to him for, he's often fighting men weighing 10-20lbs more than him
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbOY8vA6Sis&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]A[/ame]
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:55 PM   #69
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

floyd suffers from the belt madness. with an undisputed belt to fight for and defend his career path would surely look v different
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:59 PM   #70
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
He gave up weight to beat walcott which was a brilliant victory. Floyd did the same with oscar.

Louis was shot to shit and I don't rate the victory particularly high.

My point being that a shot to shit louis aside, rocky could have fought his entire career in the cw division.
Joe Louis was nowhere near what he'd been in his prime, but was still a good heavyweight.
Oscar DeLaHoya wasn't exactly in his prime. He was over-the-hill. And I didn't even see a particularly convincing victory from Mayweather.

How much weight did Floyd give away to Oscar, really, confirmed ?
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:07 PM   #71
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

What did Oscar do after Floyd? Looked poor against Forbes and made a doo-doo with the weight with Pacqiuao. Weight aside, he still only had a few rounds in him against Floyd, sk apart from beating 'the no.1 at 154' the actual win is overrated IMO.

Oscar had looked good against Mayorga. But I don't think it's a 'great' win. Certainly not the marquee win Floyd needs to lift him above mediocrity IMO.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:09 PM   #72
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
According to PP, this is true unless it's used to favour someone over Floyd.
I really don't know why so many stick up for Floyd? Not all that as a fighter, boring to watch, poor resume, and not a particularly nice guy.

Kalambay is greater. I bet there is not one poster who would even have him in their top 100.


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Old 04-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #73
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Why? Watch and compare the opponents they beat and see if you really consider Armstrong to have beat better opposition. Compare top wins:
Barney Ross - Delahoya

Barney was coming off a long winning streak, DLH had been embarrassingly dealt with multiple times years ago AND FLoyd barely squeaked by him if at all. Armstrong beat the piss out of an old man like a prime champ should.

Garcia - Corrales

Fair enough call.

Ambers-Castillo


Armstrong got robbed against the better Ambers, whilst Floyd robbed the inferior Castillo.

Don't know where you get the idea that Castillo beat better guys than Ambers. Ambers beat Canzoneri, Arizmendi, Montanez, Zivic, Fuller, Day, Davis, Klick.

Angott-Mosley

Angott is probably a little better prime for prime. Angott is probably 3 times better than the Mosley that Floyd beat.

Zivic- Judah

Zivic had some bad losses mixed in with some good wins.

Judah had some bad losses mixed in with some bad losses.

Arizmendi - Hatton

Even though Arizmendi is the better fighter, I'll say fair enough on this one considering that Hatton was a naturally bigger guy.

Sarron - G Hernandez


Again, fair enough.

Joyce - Marquez

Marquez at welterweight equal to Joyce at 140?
Surely you kid.

As an aside, Joyce would school Marquez.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #74
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Joe Louis was nowhere near what he'd been in his prime, but was still a good heavyweight.
Oscar DeLaHoya wasn't exactly in his prime. He was over-the-hill. And I didn't even see a particularly convincing victory from Mayweather.

How much weight did Floyd give away to Oscar, really, confirmed ?
good considering the strength of the division.

Anything after Sturm was past prime De La Hoya certainly.

I dunno but it looked a lot in the ring and it was quite a clear victory imo.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:38 PM   #75
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Which one is that mate?!

Just to confirm, I don't rate on personality at all!
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