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Old 04-03-2012, 09:56 PM   #1
Hydraulix
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Default Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Larry Holmes was reviled for beating on an old Ali, but Rocky wasn't despised by brutally knocking out old Joe Louis. Why is that?
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Probably because Marciano was a great guy, a nice one..humble and everything.......and Holmes wasn´t.
Holmes was a bit unkind and more unpleasant.....in his personality....
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Larry Holmes was never really popular throughout his career, i dont think it was just his beating of Ali
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Marciano was merciful and rightfully blasted Louis out of the ring. Holmes should have done the same rather than prolong it jarring Ali's head with jabs

But different circumstances too. Holmes wasn't popular.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

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Originally Posted by Hydraulix View Post
Larry Holmes was reviled for beating on an old Ali, but Rocky wasn't despised by brutally knocking out old Joe Louis. Why is that?
I don't agree with the premise. Holmes wasn't reviled for beating Ali. Holmes was a guy much of the public and press didn't warm to, in fact quite the opposite, as soon as he won the crown from Norton in 1978. Almost anybody following Ali was going to have a rough time of it. Ali had been at the top for much of two decades before he got too old.

People didn't want to see anyone beat up Ali, but I never heard or read where anybody said Holmes shouldn't have tried his best against Ali or that he carried him to punish him or God-knows-what. Much of the public didn't like Holmes 2 years after the Ali fight when he fought Cooney. Black vs. white, it seemed quite apparent, was the main reason for that-- not because Holmes had beaten Ali two years earlier.

Likewise, Marciano did what he had to do and was paid to do, in beating Louis. As the public had seemed to like Rocky from the get-go, he continued to be liked after the predictable victory over Louis.

Holmes was a very decent, clean-living guy, and superbly talented, and it's nice to see that for the most part, the public has come around to him these days.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Assuming your premise is true, in addition to what others have said, I'll add the following:

Louis was still an elite fighter who could beat top guys, who was on an eight fight win streak against solid opponents, taking on a guy whom he outweighed by nearly 30 pounds. Interesting in its inception. Plus, Louis put up a creditable performance until getting caught.

Conversely, Ali had been looking like he was on his last legs for quite some time. He had lost to Spinks, won the rematch, but still looked very old. He then retired and did not do anything for two years. An aging guy who was inactive for that long was likely not going to have anything at all. He was having health issues, and if I recall correctly his doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, had quit him in protest. Then, when the fight happened, Ali looked like a listless dead man the entire fight, just taking a beating for 10 rounds.

Not saying it is right for some to be upset at Holmes. He was just doing his job. But just trying to explain why there might have been more bitter feeling at seeing him pummel an aging and inactive legend for 10 rounds, vs. Marciano in a competitive fight against a guy who although well past it, at least had been active and beating good fighters and showed his boxing skill before getting taken out. Holmes-Ali was one of the saddest, most one-sided beat downs of a guy who had nothing to offer except his ability to take it that I have ever seen. For those who remembered what Ali once was, it was both shocking and very saddening, so it is semi-understandable that there may be some irrational ill will towards the guy who administered such a beating to an old, shot, inactive, medically questionable guy.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

He was hated for a while, but in those days they understood it was part of the sport, plus Louis and him became friends after. I do think a few reporters carried the grudge for long time.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

And having Louis speak for you didnt hurt your chances with the press either.

The reason Marciano was loved vs Holmes being hated was one guy was loved by the press, and did well around them were Holmes seem kinda of cold or odd around them. He was not very press frendly in his prime.

Both are great fighters, and Holmes did have his fans, but its all about getting along with the press since one sees the heavyweight champion on tv that way compare to his every day life.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Marciano was white.

/Fin
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

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Marciano was white.

/Fin
Walcott and Charles were not white, and both did beat Louis pretty badly, and neither one of em got the hate Holmes got vs the press.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:35 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Marciano was white.

/Fin
Not in my book, brother. Anyone coming from south of the Po doesn't fit the criteria!

Seriously, though, Holmes was not a likable force (though I have met him and like him quite a lot). Louis was still very much in the mix, while Ali was obviously, and so sadly, out of it. From all that I've read and heard, that stuff about both Marciano and Louis crying after their respective beatings of these greatest of former champs is the real deal. But ultimately in this business, you go out on your shield. All the love and adulation of former skills can not protect you.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Race had something to do with it in 1950s America.

Also the style of fighting. Rocky Marciano was an all action slugger/brawler. Fans love a heavyweight champion that can knock down a buildling. Marciano was a once in a lifetime type of hitter, pressure fighter action fighter.

Holmes was an boxer who used movement and a great jab. Hardcore fans appreciate this but the general public doesnt embrace these types of fighters the same way. The fact that he also had a style that could be percieved as an Ali imitator could be a factor as well.

Many of the things Holmes did well were the things Ali did well.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post

the style of fighting. Rocky Marciano was an all action slugger/brawler. Fans love a heavyweight champion that can knock down a buildling. Marciano was a once in a lifetime type of hitter, pressure fighter action fighter.
This is what I think.
Also Marciano was a small guy, and humble, an ordinary down-to-earth, blue-collar character. He was probably one of the easiest champions to root for in the history of the division.

If he'd been black it wouldn't have been much different.
I'm sure nice guy Floyd Patterson could have gotten away with beating Joe Louis without being hated too (except, I'm not sure Floyd could have beat Louis !).
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollack View Post
Assuming your premise is true, in addition to what others have said, I'll add the following:

Louis was still an elite fighter who could beat top guys, who was on an eight fight win streak against solid opponents, taking on a guy whom he outweighed by nearly 30 pounds. Interesting in its inception. Plus, Louis put up a creditable performance until getting caught.

Conversely, Ali had been looking like he was on his last legs for quite some time. He had lost to Spinks, won the rematch, but still looked very old. He then retired and did not do anything for two years. An aging guy who was inactive for that long was likely not going to have anything at all. He was having health issues, and if I recall correctly his doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, had quit him in protest. Then, when the fight happened, Ali looked like a listless dead man the entire fight, just taking a beating for 10 rounds.

Not saying it is right for some to be upset at Holmes. He was just doing his job. But just trying to explain why there might have been more bitter feeling at seeing him pummel an aging and inactive legend for 10 rounds, vs. Marciano in a competitive fight against a guy who although well past it, at least had been active and beating good fighters and showed his boxing skill before getting taken out. Holmes-Ali was one of the saddest, most one-sided beat downs of a guy who had nothing to offer except his ability to take it that I have ever seen. For those who remembered what Ali once was, it was both shocking and very saddening, so it is semi-understandable that there may be some irrational ill will towards the guy who administered such a beating to an old, shot, inactive, medically questionable guy.
Pretty much dead on ... I'll only add that Holmes personality, hot and cold , kind but at times defensive and abrasive, at times simply annoying did not help .. in addition, he tried too often to mimic Ali and often embarrassed himself ... Rocky to his credit was always , at least publically, humble ..
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Different circumstances might be the key, Holmes was a dominating Champion when he met the retired Ali while Rocky was still a rising contender when he met the higher ranked #1 Joe Louis in the hopes of getting his first title shot. I think Joe Louis was actually the betting favorite against this Rocky guy people wasn't sure had the "stuff" or not.

Surprised, this hasn't been mentioned. Two very different situations.
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