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Old 01-11-2008, 06:58 AM   #46
Dostoevsky
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?



No of course not.
He was only 27 and in his prime.
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:59 AM   #47
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by smokin joe
your overating foreman hes not that good, ali made very easy work of him, he had life in death with ron lyle, and jimmy young beat him, sure he sometimes looked invincible but was far from it

It's funny how an 'unbeaten' Frazier was past his best, yet Foreman, who'd had the confidence knocked out of him after Zaire was right at his peak against Young...


...and despite being "not that good", ****ing annihilated Frazier twice. With embarrassing ease.
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:07 AM   #48
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
BORKED
Ali looked scared shitless in that video, he could barely even look Frazier in the eyes!
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:15 PM   #49
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by Iron Duke
Ali looked scared shitless in that video, he could barely even look Frazier in the eyes!
He wasn't scared. He just seemed angry to me.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

No, no, Joe looked angry, Ali looked intimidated and scared.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:17 AM   #51
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

..........not shot but definetly past his prime..........joe was in the hospital for 2 weeks after the first ali fight........he wasnt shot.....i would say frazier was completly shot after the minilla fight........he looked horrid in the 2nd foreman fight coming in at 224 lbs.......i have frazier vs cummings.....from 1981 on dvd ...very shot fighter....not even close too the guy who fought jerry quarry.....but yes joe frazier wasnt shot after the fight of the cenury he knocked out daniels....ron stander.....i think george foreman was the wrong style for joe.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:03 AM   #52
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
It's funny how an 'unbeaten' Frazier was past his best, yet Foreman, who'd had the confidence knocked out of him after Zaire was right at his peak against Young...
I guess that's because Foreman was strong and in fine health in his 40s, and because he looked in great shape against Jimmy Young.

Whereas Joe Frazier looked fat against Foreman, and looked like humpty-dumpty two years later, with any eye cataract in his 30s, and diabetes and blood pressure problems before he was 40.
Frazier looks at his best in '67 to '71 and he looks increasingly duller since.

Foreman actually looks as big, and as strong, and as fit, and as fast consistently from '73 to '77. And he looked flawed throughout - in different ways in different fights.

Quote:
...and despite being "not that good", ****ing annihilated Frazier twice. With embarrassing ease
Good point.
Foreman lost embarrassingly too - against Ali and Young.

Frazier of '76 was a sad imitation of Smokin' Joe.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:06 AM   #53
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
It's funny how an 'unbeaten' Frazier was past his best, yet Foreman, who'd had the confidence knocked out of him after Zaire was right at his peak against Young...
Great point.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:09 AM   #54
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Good point.
Foreman lost embarrassingly too - against Ali and Young.
I don't quite agree. Foreman was outclassed against Ali but it's hardly embarrassing what happened to him vs IMO the greatest heavyweight ever. He also had Young all but out in one round and i'd hardly call that embarrassing.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:20 AM   #55
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by Iron Duke
No, no, Joe looked angry, Ali looked intimidated and scared.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:29 AM   #56
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I don't quite agree. Foreman was outclassed against Ali but it's hardly embarrassing what happened to him vs IMO the greatest heavyweight ever. He also had Young all but out in one round and i'd hardly call that embarrassing.
In my opinion, Foreman looked like crap against Ali, completely clueless. After 5 rounds he looked spent, throwing weak punches, stumbling forward, flailing away like an amateur.

Getting knocked down by Jimmy Young IS embarrassing, esp. for a fighter who some say was close to invincible.

Frazier's loss to Foreman was a case of being overpowered, outgunned. It looked more embarrassing for Frazier only because he kept getting up to get knocked down again. If he'd stayed down on that 2nd knock down I reckon people would be saying stuff like "that punch would have finished off any man". With one or two knockdowns people acknowledge the one-sidedness , but when a fighter carries on and attempts to fight back through half-dozen knockdowns he gets even less credit.


Sure, Frazier was outclassed, outgunned, destroyed within 2 rounds. That's a devastating professional setback. But nothing to be embarrassed about any more than hitting the deck against Jimmy Young, a very light-hitter.

Frazier lost to 3-1 underdog in Foreman.
Ali and Young were almost certainly bigger underdogs against Foreman.

Degrees of "embarrassment" attributed to other people is a bit subjective though. Personally, I wouldn't insist that Frazier nor Foreman should feel embarrassed about losing a boxing match.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:05 AM   #57
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Frazier lost to 3-1 underdog in Foreman.
Ali and Young were almost certainly bigger underdogs against Foreman.
Ali was a 3-1 underdog against Ali, so in terms of odds, it was exactly the same situation. Don't about Young though, i think Foreman was a slight favorite there.



Thing is, Ali didn't really outclass Foreman. He may have outlasted him, but that's something else. It's not like the entire Ali-Foreman fight was like the first round. Most of the time, Ali layed on the ropes and Foreman just wasted his punches and didn't hit Ali often at all. That is not outclassing someone in my opinion. Young did outclass Foreman. Foreman would always be in heaps of trouble against a skilled boxer with a chin. Byrd would've given him a lot to think about.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:21 AM   #58
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
But Joe responded with "They lied to you".
what is he going to say "yeah i am, but im so angry that im gonna beat you up chump"
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:05 PM   #59
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Ali was a 3-1 underdog against Ali, so in terms of odds, it was exactly the same situation. Don't about Young though, i think Foreman was a slight favorite there.
I thought the odds were longer than that. I got that wrong.

Quote:
Thing is, Ali didn't really outclass Foreman. He may have outlasted him, but that's something else. It's not like the entire Ali-Foreman fight was like the first round. Most of the time, Ali layed on the ropes and Foreman just wasted his punches and didn't hit Ali often at all. That is not outclassing someone in my opinion. Young did outclass Foreman. Foreman would always be in heaps of trouble against a skilled boxer with a chin. Byrd would've given him a lot to think about
Whatever words we use to describe it, Foreman didn't come close to beating Ali, and looked a rather dismal boxer throughout that fight.


Ali may have only "outlasted" or "out-toughed" Foreman, that's not really anything to credit Foreman with though. Foreman "the puncher" was the man throwing the wasted punchers and dull easy-to-block punches - impressing ringsiders with his dull clubbing might but little else - while Ali was landing the sharp, effective punches.
Ali took too many punches, and let the brute attempt to maul him, but he looked "a class above" Foreman in many ways.

To be out-LASTED within 8 rounds in a scheduled 15-rounder suggests he was out-CLASSED too.
But that's all semantics.
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:18 PM   #60
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Default Re: Was Joe Frazier shot after the Fight of the Century?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
Frazier was far from shot, but he started a slow decline from there.
true frazier wasn't shot,but not that same fighter as before ali 1
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