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Old 04-30-2012, 10:28 AM   #106
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

Agreed. Duran had a couple of rounds in there.

I actually think Leonard did himself a disservice with the showboating. Not as much as 'I need a shit' or 'I ain't fighting with this clown' but still, the first fight was the most defining performance and important victory out of the two fights IMO (less said about the borefest that was the rubber match)
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #107
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

I think I had leonard by 2 in the rematch, which is far from one sided. I actually played the fight for an ex girlfriend once who said 'how can he (ray) be winning, he is running away). Far from one-sided as already mentioned
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:13 AM   #108
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

As I've said many times: Ray was fairly comfortable in the early going in Montreal. Once Duran timed him in the second, Ray allowed himself to be outworked.

It was part of Ray's plan IMO. As I say, he usually took a while to make adjustments, notably against Hearns and Kalule. Against Duran, he had to take months to make the adjustment. That's how great a fighter Duran was that night.

Ray would never lose to a fabulous four member again. Duran would never beat one. It happens.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:29 AM   #109
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

I've just watched Leonard - Hearns 1 again (I've maintained that Ray was completely outboxed, but some disagree, so i did a rbr), and Ray's adjustments were horrible. He was completely outboxed for the first 5 rounds, but even after he really hurt Tommy in rounds 6,7 and 8, he completely let up from 9 through 12. He was literally stalking Tommy without punching. It was horrible to watch from a Leonard standpoint.

I maintain he was very VERY lucky in that fight. If he doesnt land that bomb out of nowhere, he loses wide.

There has always been that air of uncertainly regarding Ray's career with me. I mean, he was beaten up by Duran, totally outboxed by Hearns before THAT punch, and was fortunate to get given the decision against Hagler.

If there isnt a rematch in New Orleans, if tommy holds on, and if Hagler gets that decision, Ray's legacy is in tatters.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:30 AM   #110
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

I think I had no 2 4-3 to leonard when he threw in the towel. been a while since I lasted watched these fights, might watch them again on wednesday when i get some time
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:12 PM   #111
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

4-3. Ray was only going to pull away though IMO.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #112
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vano-Irons View Post
I've just watched Leonard - Hearns 1 again (I've maintained that Ray was completely outboxed, but some disagree, so i did a rbr), and Ray's adjustments were horrible. He was completely outboxed for the first 5 rounds, but even after he really hurt Tommy in rounds 6,7 and 8, he completely let up from 9 through 12. He was literally stalking Tommy without punching. It was horrible to watch from a Leonard standpoint.

I maintain he was very VERY lucky in that fight. If he doesnt land that bomb out of nowhere, he loses wide.

There has always been that air of uncertainly regarding Ray's career with me. I mean, he was beaten up by Duran, totally outboxed by Hearns before THAT punch, and was fortunate to get given the decision against Hagler.

If there isnt a rematch in New Orleans, if tommy holds on, and if Hagler gets that decision, Ray's legacy is in tatters.
I wouldn't often say this to you, dude, but this is a terrible post. You think the reason he struggled to adjust might have been that hearns was an amazing fighter with the attributes to trouble anyone in history?

It's as dumb as saying Hagler got lucky against Tommy. Greats lose to other greats bad Ray was never, ever outclassed.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:01 PM   #113
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

Clear win for Duran in a great fight, one of the single best wins in history.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #114
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

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Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
I wouldn't often say this to you, dude, but this is a terrible post. You think the reason he struggled to adjust might have been that hearns was an amazing fighter with the attributes to trouble anyone in history?

It's as dumb as saying Hagler got lucky against Tommy. Greats lose to other greats bad Ray was never, ever outclassed.
I see what your saying Dave, but Ray looked horrible after he hurt Tommy. He was literally walking flat footed in straight lines. Tommy wast doing much, just flicking out the jab every now and again without the power behind it.

I'd pick Tommy to beat every welter in history, excluding Rob, so it's not a massive surprise he outboxed him early. But what is a surprise is the way he let him off the hook, and looked clueless on the front foot when his man was hurt (something he was usually very good at).
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:18 PM   #115
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

Duran was absolutely superb that night, I'll re-watch tonight and hand in my scorecard, last time I watched I scored it widely in Duran's favor.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:45 PM   #116
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Default Re: The Myth-buster thread ***Duran-Leonard 1 WAS NOT CLOSE***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vano-Irons View Post
I've just watched Leonard - Hearns 1 again (I've maintained that Ray was completely outboxed, but some disagree, so i did a rbr), and Ray's adjustments were horrible. He was completely outboxed for the first 5 rounds, but even after he really hurt Tommy in rounds 6,7 and 8, he completely let up from 9 through 12. He was literally stalking Tommy without punching. It was horrible to watch from a Leonard standpoint.

I maintain he was very VERY lucky in that fight. If he doesnt land that bomb out of nowhere, he loses wide.

There has always been that air of uncertainly regarding Ray's career with me. I mean, he was beaten up by Duran, totally outboxed by Hearns before THAT punch, and was fortunate to get given the decision against Hagler.

If there isnt a rematch in New Orleans, if tommy holds on, and if Hagler gets that decision, Ray's legacy is in tatters.
Ray always got the "Pass" due to the fact he was a $$$$$ brand, if Hearns had held out then that really was the end for Leonard albeit he held the WBA 154 strap as financial compo just in case he lost to Tommy, well he was'nt that confident of beating Hearns hense the kalule fight at 154. But in all reality Leonard would have quit the sport as he was soundly outboxed by Hearns at 147 so it would have been a few paydays at 154 but everone would have been clamering for a benitez re-match & there's no way leonard wanted anything to do with Wilfred again & especially at 154. Leonard always had the "get out of jail" card & he was able too get away with it by avoiding re-matching Hearns or a 3rd with Duran at 147/154. All roads led to Hagler & ray actually talked himself into that fight & when cornered he opted out into retirement.

Leonard's style was not made for longevity especially back then when there was only 2 governing bodies whose top 10's were ram jammed packed solid with danger. Leonards defence was based on reflex speed & cluster punching not so on footwork. Leonard was always a plant-em flat footed banger whenever opportunity presented. People talk about SRL's speed & they don't know what they are talking about, his ALI impersination in the 1st Hearns fight lost him the 1st 5 rounds Leonard & ALI could'nt be futher apart.

Leonard was not so difficult to hit & after the Hearns fight & then the finch fight that due to his status he had only one place to go & that was to fight Hagler & he thought better of it & called that bogus retirement conference when everone including Marvin thought it was to announce the fight. SRL knew better than to lock horns with a younger hagler as defeat would have spelled the end of the SRL $$$$ brand so he chose to haunt ringside at all the major fights "Winking & hinting at a comeback"

You had the next batch of 147 candidates eager & waiting for their shot at SRL, such as Curry/Starling/McCrory & Co. It was a tough tough era back then & not many stayed the distance at the top & IMHO Leonard was one of those fighters that burned bright for only a short while & he would have struggled to get into 83 as an unbeaten 147lb. But whats really amazing is the fact that SRL fought 5 times in 14 months.....How times have changed now we've got the HBO monster calling the shots.

Leonard knew he'd dodged the Bullit "More like a howitzer shell" when he beat Hearns & he's one of the shrewdest manipulative ****ers out there & a genius at working the media & again he got the "Pass" for not re-matching Hearns as Leonard had the absolute neck to say that tommy had to earn his shot.
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