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Old 05-05-2012, 12:11 PM   #46
TBooze
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I like it. Much more fluid and less rigid.

Puts it's clear ahead of the alphabet belts for me now.
World Championships should be rigid, a systematic statement of fact, the stabilizer to the fluidity of the rankings.

The Ring was never perfect, but it was reliable, an institution. And although it seemed it might recover from the scandal of the US Boxing Championships in the 90s under Farhood; it never really did, and has gone down the loo in this Century. If I want pages of Women, I would buy a Lads Mag. I buy a boxing magazine for boxing, and if there is a rating system involved, I expect it to be sound and logical...
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #47
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

In this era of titles, were the odds are that number 1 has some Alpha title, and number 2 has other belt(I am not even getting into 3 and 4 or 5 who also lilkely has there own versions of belts)

And the orgs pretty much dont want a unify title(Took Lewis years to do it, and Kilt had to beat the man who had the WBA belt, but not for the WBA title)

Its almost impossible for the number 1 and 2 guys to fight. I think in a fair world, WK would have all ready unify all the titles, but poltics keeps Wlad from doing that. He can beat the man that holds the belt, but the Org wont give it to him. I ok with this.
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Old 05-05-2012, 03:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Decline? It was never what it was cracked up to be. (the mag or the title)
Yep. Never understood by so many people treated it like the Holy Grail.
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Old 05-05-2012, 04:48 PM   #49
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
World Championships should be rigid, a systematic statement of fact, the stabilizer to the fluidity of the rankings.

The Ring was never perfect, but it was reliable, an institution. And although it seemed it might recover from the scandal of the US Boxing Championships in the 90s under Farhood; it never really did, and has gone down the loo in this Century. If I want pages of Women, I would buy a Lads Mag. I buy a boxing magazine for boxing, and if there is a rating system involved, I expect it to be sound and logical...
I couldn't disagree more.

When being rigid you have to consider briggs as hw champion. When being fluid you allow for the reality it was holyfield.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #50
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I couldn't disagree more.

When being rigid you have to consider briggs as hw champion. When being fluid you allow for the reality it was holyfield.
Briggs was champion, there was no need to define it otherwise. If the Champion was always the best fighter, the title would never change hands.
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Old 05-05-2012, 05:11 PM   #51
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
World Championships should be rigid, a systematic statement of fact, the stabilizer to the fluidity of the rankings.

The Ring was never perfect, but it was reliable, an institution. And although it seemed it might recover from the scandal of the US Boxing Championships in the 90s under Farhood; it never really did, and has gone down the loo in this Century. If I want pages of Women, I would buy a Lads Mag. I buy a boxing magazine for boxing, and if there is a rating system involved, I expect it to be sound and logical...
Yeah, womens boxing dosen't interest me at all..it's like midget wrestling..no more...and glossy pages of ring card girls don't belong in a boxing mag..it's space wasted that could have been devoted to a "where are they now" feature about some classic or less than great champion of the past..
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
Briggs was champion, there was no need to define it otherwise. If the Champion was always the best fighter, the title would never change hands.
this what i'm talking about. the reality was that briggs was never ever perceived as champion other than a mythical lineal belt.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:13 AM   #53
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

Shannon Briggs entered the ring against Lennox Lewis he was announced as simply 'the challenger'.
If a fighter can't even get announced as any SORT OF champion, then he simply isn't one.

That's my take on it. IF a fighter won't or can't even publicly recognize himself as the champion, then there's no way he's the real world champion.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Decline? It was never what it was cracked up to be. (the mag or the title)
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Originally Posted by Jacquot View Post
Yep. Never understood by so many people treated it like the Holy Grail.

Agree.
It's just a boxing magazine. In my lifetime just one of several.

Even back in its heyday (like 60+ years ago) it seems ratings were used as a convenient measure or for promotional purposes, and though they were 'accepted' to carry some prestige they were never actually the mandate or holy standard that controlled boxing.
(This classic forum probably takes ratings more seriously than any body that ever existed.)
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:28 AM   #55
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

Lineage began to die a death in the 80's.

By now it means nothing. I understand the interest in tracing something pure but it doesn't reflect the reality of today's climate.

An example today is marquez, he hasn't fought at lw for about 18 month now, how could anyone claim him as the champion of the division?

The rules for stripping are sound, if a man doesn't seek a top 5 contender within 2 years he shouldn't be a champion. If he doesn't fight within a year and a half he should lose his claim.

As for the 1 v 5 scenarios, it isn't like this is without precedent. Robinson v bell certainly wasn't 1 v 2. Holmes v ali certainly wasn't 1 v 2. Hart v root where 2 handpicked fighters by jeffries.

If anything, the 1 v 2 insistence I see on internet forum's is a move inconsistent with history. Now where the ring the only sanctioning body that insistence would work brilliantly, but as it is, in an era of 5 belts per division, declaring championships vacant seems a bit ridiculous.

This move will see more ring champs crowned which should increase it's prestige and hence water down that of the alphabet titles.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:51 AM   #56
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
this what i'm talking about. the reality was that briggs was never ever perceived as champion other than a mythical lineal belt.
The so called linear title is an important tool needed to be considered the 'Generally recognized' World Champion. It is the sort thing 'The Bible of Boxing' should pick up on. Just because something is not easy to define and may without understanding, look strange, does not mean a trade magazine should just wipe it out and insult the readers.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:13 AM   #57
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

ring not d best champship anywey luk at d rankings copyed n pasted

luk at d wbc wba wbo ibf ranking here ov heavyweights

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luk at d ring magazeen ranking here ov heavyweights

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

d best rankings ov d top 10 is d wbo so they must be d best n most creditable champship belt now at d moment
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:30 AM   #58
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
The so called linear title is an important tool needed to be considered the 'Generally recognized' World Champion. It is the sort thing 'The Bible of Boxing' should pick up on. Just because something is not easy to define and may without understanding, look strange, does not mean a trade magazine should just wipe it out and insult the readers.
No it isn't at all. It's a tool of purity and nothing more.

Holyfield in 97, jones in 99, darch after beating mijares and so on and so forth.

All these guys where genuinely recognised as champ. None are considered linear.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:13 AM   #59
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
No it isn't at all. It's a tool of purity and nothing more.

Holyfield in 97, jones in 99, darch after beating mijares and so on and so forth.

All these guys where genuinely recognised as champ. None are considered linear.
There is no such thing as a genuinely recognized champ. What is genuine in a boxing environment? Generally is the only way to define champions that are other than personal opinion. Part of that tag, is the need to recognize the strong minority opinion of linear.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:35 AM   #60
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Default Re: The RING devalues itīs Championship - another sign of itīs decline?

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There is no such thing as a genuinely recognized champ. What is genuine in a boxing environment? Generally is the only way to define champions that are other than personal opinion. Part of that tag, is the need to recognize the strong minority opinion of linear.
Typo, I meant generally.

It isn't even a strong opinion. It's occasional musings on the internet.

There is no denying that jones jr was generally accepted as the lhw champion.

Lineage just isn't that big a deal anymore.
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