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Old 05-05-2012, 08:08 PM   #16
PetethePrince
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

Pictures don't lie. I think Magna was referring to fighting sharpness, though. I don't think the arguments about Holmes being better in the Mercer fight than the Tyson one are outrageous. But it is not one I support. I actually thought Holmes managed some glimpses of success against Tyson. And I also thought Holmes looked generally more inconsistent and out of form toward the end of his reign anyway... really.
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

Yeah Holmes looked horribly rusty against Tyson.

Tyson was coming at him at 100 mph. Holmes was getting older not better, he would have never been capable of handling that kind of pressure, especially three or four years later.
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

I don't believe Tyson's opposition was that weak. In fact it gets terribly underrated. The only champs who fought better opposition would be Ali and Holyfield.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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I don't believe Tyson's opposition was that weak. In fact it gets terribly underrated. The only champs who fought better opposition would be Ali and Holyfield.


Tyson tore through a division that wasn't amazing, saw him beaten, and missing out on the biggest fight of his life against Holy in '91. That hurts his resume no matter what.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Tyson tore through a division that wasn't amazing, saw him beaten, and missing out on the biggest fight of his life against Holy in '91. That hurts his resume no matter what.
So which eras were amazing besides the 70's and 90's? Which heavyweights fought better opposition than Tyson? Looking for replies is all.

There's not much separating Tyson's opposition from the other greats like Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Holmes, Lewis. ALi and Holyfield are clearly superior but nobody else is. Unless someone can bring up some good arguments.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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So which eras were amazing besides the 70's and 90's? Which heavyweights fought better opposition than Tyson? Looking for replies is all.

There's not much separating Tyson's opposition from the other greats like Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Holmes, Lewis. ALi and Holyfield are clearly superior but nobody else is. Unless someone can bring up some good arguments.
Don't know which you mean by era but as far as straight opposition goes for w/l Lennox, Foreman, Ali, Louis, Frazier, Holyfield, Johnson.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:44 AM   #22
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

vs Trevor Berbick 1986: Grade: B-

vs Bonecrusher Smith 1987: Grade: C

vs Pinklon Thomas 1987: Grade: B-

vs Tony Tucker 1987: Grade: B

vs Tyrell Biggs 1987: Grade: B

vs Larry Holmes 1988: Grade: C-

vs Tony Tubbs 1988: Grade: B

vs Michael Spinks 1988: Grade: B+

vs Frank Bruno 1989: Grade: B

vs Carl Williams 1989: Grade: B-
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:08 AM   #23
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Don't know which you mean by era but as far as straight opposition goes for w/l Lennox, Foreman, Ali, Louis, Frazier, Holyfield, Johnson.
I disagree with Lewis, Foreman and Frazier. Frazier and Foreman may have fought the bigger names (the Ali-Frazier-Foreman triangle) but overall Tyson's opposition is deeper. Lewis is about even.

I'll be back later today.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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I disagree with Lewis, Foreman and Frazier. Frazier and Foreman may have fought the bigger names (the Ali-Frazier-Foreman triangle) but overall Tyson's opposition is deeper. Lewis is about even.

I'll be back later today.
Foreman having KOs over Frazier Norton, Moorer, Lyle is better than Tyson opponents? I dunno but I look forward to your rebuttal.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:20 AM   #25
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Originally Posted by FelixTrinidad
vs Trevor Berbick 1986: Grade: F
Are you serious? giving him that high of a grade? I'm not trying to insult you but come on dude.

1- He was high on cocaine that night. I'll link you sources. He was coming off back to back arrests on possession.

2- THE GUY was ****ing knocked the **** out by Bernardo Mercado
ST the cruiserweight Gordon and Snipes for Christs Sake.

WTF man he had 5 losses LEADING INTO THE TYSON FIGHT and you give him a B+??
Seriously a B+? This guy was a borderline gatekeeper

vs Bonecrusher Smith 1987: Grade: D-
Bonecrusher Smith was a ****ing Gatekeeper too.

vs Larry Holmes 1988: Grade: F

You can't say Larry got better afterwards hence trying to make Mike Tyson look good.

Do you know the story of larry vs tyson?

Holmes was paid millions by Don King to get out of retirement asap and fight Mike because they wanted Holmes name on Mike's list. He was suppose to retire immediatly afterwards but he got sucked back into boxing and did very well when he was fully motivated and trained. The version of Holmes that fought Mike had zero training and basically just stepped out of his house for a pay day


vs Tony Tubbs 1988:I can not believe you gave this guy a ****ing B+

C+
at best

vs Michael Spinks 1988: Grade: c+
this guy was a LHW for god's sake.

vs Frank Bruno 1989: Grade: B
Ya Bruno is legit
the version of Bruno isn't as good as the Bruno that fought Lewis though


vs Carl Williams 1989: Grade: D
he was shot
He was knocked out by hercules
after Holmes



Tyson fought a bunch of god damn bums dude. This is why He is overrated.

Americans gave him all the props in the world for fighting bums because he can ko them in a great fashion

Im not denying his skills but it is what it is

The best fighter he ever fought was Holyfield
Holyfield was the only A fighter he ever fought that was still an A fighter when the match happened

the 2nd best was a semi shot Lewis in 2002

I gave that semi shot past prime Lewis of 2002
a B-
grade
What the **** is this shit?
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Foreman having KOs over Frazier Norton, Moorer, Lyle is better than Tyson opponents? I dunno but I look forward to your rebuttal.
Bigger top end names yes, although Tyson wiped about about twice as many rated heavyweights and had a title reign to speak of. Yes, he ran into Ali and was the Dope in the Rope-a-Dope and a huge reason Ali is GOAT -- he shouldnt of won.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Originally Posted by Sangria View Post
So which eras were amazing besides the 70's and 90's? Which heavyweights fought better opposition than Tyson? Looking for replies is all.

There's not much separating Tyson's opposition from the other greats like Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Holmes, Lewis. ALi and Holyfield are clearly superior but nobody else is. Unless someone can bring up some good arguments.
I'd argue Holmes has a better resume, in some ways similar, but with more longevity. Although Holmes didn't tear through his opposition like Tyson did he has incredible depth and arguably has the bigger win of the two (prime Mercer) and you could argue the Norton win as well (although slightly past his best) another point that could be significant is that quite a few opponents Tyson faced, where worse versions that had previously been matched up against Holmes Williams/Smith/Berbick/Holyfield/Frazier

Now I'm sure you'd counter with the argument that Tyson did better against the opposition, but did he really do that much better if at all? Frazier was stopped in 1 by both men. Even. Berbick dominated decision by Holmes, taken out early from Tyson. Edge to Tyson so far. Smith stopped in 12 by Holmes, UD12 Tyson. Even again. Holyfield, Tyson stopped in 11, Holmes close but clear UD to Holyfield. slight edge to Holmes as Tyson only had 3 rounds in the bank. Williams, comfortable decision (some saw it quite close) Tyson KO1 even again. Berbick shutout decision to Holmes, Tyson KO2. Edge to Tyson and overall.

Considering this is one if Tysons main arguments in the way he beat his opposition, with the common opponents with Holmes, he hasnt done that much better at all, and especially when you take into account that Holmes was fighting better versions of most, if not all of them. A long with wins that aren't matchable on Holmes resume like Witherspoon, Norton and Mercer which personally are better than any of Tysons wins, Spinks being the only man that comes close to these 3 IMO shows Larry clearly has the better resume.

However I realise you haven't openly disagreed with this point (although you may well do) and that you probably have Holmes above Tyson in your heavyweight rankings anyway.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:00 AM   #28
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

Tyson's opposition as champion was very tough ...

Berbick was a tough guy that went a hard 15 w a prime Holmes, knocked out John Tate, thrashed an undefeated Greg Page and just upset a prime Pinklon Thomas.

Bonecrusher was huge, powerful, and a murderous puncher who was coming off his biggest career win v.s. Witherspoon. He also gave an aging but still very tough Larry Holmes hell.

Thomas was a bit past his best but came into the fight in great condition and was crushed in a manner he never was beaten before ..

Tucker was huge, powerful and talented. A former amateur star ... again, coming off his biggest career win. Tyson was simply too good.

Briggs was an amateur superstar and a highly touted pro in his own prime .. he was simply crushed ..

Holmes was the only one of Tyson's opponents that was not near his prime or ready for such a fight ... he was 37 and coming off 18 months of inactivity and simply too the fight for money .. the later version that fought Mercer and Holyfield was much better because like Foreman he slowly rebuilt himself through activity ...

Tubbs was a very talented guy, still near his prime who could give a ton of guys fits ... he was simply caught fast and hard early by a terrific fighter ..

Mike Spinks was simply crushed in a stylistic nightmare .. that same Spinks would have defeated or fought on even terms with many of the so called other heavyweight greats ..

IT's so easy to dislike or discount Tyson because of the horrible things he did through out his career but it does not change the facts and among them are that in his prime , Berbick to Spinks, he was an absolute force of nature, one of the most dangerous fighters that ever lived and dominated huge, talented , very good super heavyweights that were either in or were close to their own primes .. I feel his title opposition dwarfs Johnson's, Dempsey's, Louis', Marciano's and Ali's first reign ...
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:04 AM   #29
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Tyson's opposition as champion was very tough ...

Berbick was a tough guy that went a hard 15 w a prime Holmes, knocked out John Tate, thrashed an undefeated Greg Page and just upset a prime Pinklon Thomas.

Bonecrusher was huge, powerful, and a murderous puncher who was coming off his biggest career win v.s. Witherspoon. He also gave an aging but still very tough Larry Holmes hell.

THomas was a bit past his best but came into the fight in great condition and was crushed in a manner he never was beaten before ..

Tucker was huge, powerful and talented. A former amateur star ... again, coming off his biggest career win. Tyson was simply too good.

Briggs was an amateur superstar and a highly touted pro in his own prime .. he was simply crushed ..

Holmes was the only one of TYson's opponents that was not near his prime or ready for such a fight ... he was 37 and coming off 18 months of inactivity and simply too the fight for money .. the later version that fought Mercer and Holyfield was much better because like Foreman he slowly rebuilt himself through activity ..

Tubbs was a very talented guy, still near his prime who could give a ton of guys fits ... he was simply caught fast and hard early by a terrific fighter ..

Mike Spinks was simply crushed in a stylistic nightmare .. that same Spinks would have defeated or fought on even terms with many of the so called other heavyweight greats ..

IT's so easy to dislike or discount Tyson because of the horrible things he did through out his career but it does not change the facts and among them are that in whisk prime , Berbick to Spinks, he was an absolute force of nature, one of the most dangerous fighters that ever lived and dominated huge, talented , very good super heavyweights that were either in or were close to their own primes .. I feel his title opposition dwarfs Johnson's, Dempsey's, Louis', Marciano's and Ali's first reign ...
Common now bro, Holmes absaloutley schooled Berbick.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:11 AM   #30
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Default Re: Give each of Mike Tyson's title opponents a letter grade

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Common now bro, Holmes absaloutley schooled Berbick.
Really, watch the fight ... Holmes clearly won but it was possibly his toughest title defense pre-Witherrspoon .. Berick was tough and in there ...
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