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Old 05-13-2012, 11:05 PM   #16
ETM
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

Remember Ali was the one who was yelling for Dundee to "cutem off!" I dont think he was kidding at that time. He was hurting.

He had hit Joe with everything. The pace was unreal for heavyweights from round 1 to begin with. The # of punches that Ali threw in the 13th and 14th almost assured that he wouldnt have had to try and coast in the 15th.

When you consider that heat that they were in I think anything was possible.

I just know that the image of Ali laying in the ring about 15 seconds after the fight was called off haunted Joe until he passed.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

I watched the ending of the fight, and in the corner after the 14th you can see Frazier blink with both eyes, indicating that the eye was not completely shut at that point. When Ali's arm is raised in victory, you can detect a buckling in his knees. That said, going by the official scores, all Ali had to do to win was survive the last round. I believe it may have been a clinch-filled last round with both men lasting the limit.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

Ali collapsed when he tried to stand. If Frazier had stood up for round 15, fight was his.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

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Ali collapsed when he tried to stand. If Frazier had stood up for round 15, fight was his.



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Old 05-14-2012, 05:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

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If Joe Frazier doesn't retire on his stool, what happens?

Does Ali knock him out?

Does Frazier dig deep and connect with a game-changing punch to take Ali out?

Does Ali pour it on and win the round big, and a decision?

Any chance Smokin' Joe outworks The Greatest to take the round?

I should know this, but can anyone explain the scorecards: 66-60, 66-62 and 67-62. I assume that's 5-point must, but how does it break down?

Joe Frazier could have got hurt really badly if he'd have been sent back out there. As exhausted as Ali was too,Frazier could barely see his punches coming. It really annoys me wnen some criticise Eddie Futch's decision,as only a sadist would have been willing to see a possible tragedy.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:39 AM   #21
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

Pretty sure Ali wanted the fight stopped anyway? If frazier stood up for the 15th it would be the result reversed. Frazier RTD14
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:09 AM   #22
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

The "Cut 'em off" comment from Ali to Dundee was more like a wistful yearning that the end to an exhausting fight would come quickly. Can you imagine Ali's reaction if Angelo had taken him at his word ?


There was no way in Earth,Heaven or Hell that Ali would have voluntarily quit to anyone,let alone his biggest rival.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
The "Cut 'em off" comment from Ali to Dundee was more like a wistful yearning that the end to an exhausting fight would come quickly. Can you imagine Ali's reaction if Angelo had taken him at his word ?


There was no way in Earth,Heaven or Hell that Ali would have voluntarily quit to anyone,let alone his biggest rival.
Ali has been quoted saying that Frazier quit just before I did. I think you have a little to much respect for Ali. Although not physically as beaten up as Frazier he was just as bad if not worse for stamina issues.

We can argue till the cows come home but at the end of the day, if Ali says 'Frazier quit just before I did' I don't really see an argument against it.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:43 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
The "Cut 'em off" comment from Ali to Dundee was more like a wistful yearning that the end to an exhausting fight would come quickly. Can you imagine Ali's reaction if Angelo had taken him at his word ?


There was no way in Earth,Heaven or Hell that Ali would have voluntarily quit to anyone,let alone his biggest rival.
With all respect Stevie (and you know I mean that fellah), I admire the way you are standing by your man on this one, but I gotta say I think you are stretching things a bit here, no offence intended.

I think Ali was all in...I think they were bith done physically, but Smoke wanted it more. Psychologically, I think Ali would ALWAYS have gone before Joe, Joe's hatred at the time was all-consuming, I honestly believe he would have died rather than quit to Ali...I don't think there was quite the sanme feeling the other way around...
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:37 AM   #25
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Ali did collapse in the ring shortly after he realized Futch had stopped it.
He voluntarily sat down because he was gassed, a bit different from colapsing.

He did the same after the Foreman fight as he didn`t like all the chaos with so many people in the ring immediately after the fight... after he beat Foreman you can see some people lifting Ali up & him yelling at them to put him down, then he sits down in the middle of the ring.

Ali was obviously more gassed vs Frazier than vs George so he was happy to sit his ass down & have a moment to himself to recover both mentally & physically.... thats my take on it, right or wrong.

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Old 05-14-2012, 09:48 AM   #26
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

As far as the thread question... I see a slow round, with Ali content to flicker out the odd jab & keep Joe at distance, I see Joe bulling in from time to time taking a clean punch or 2 on the way in, I see Joe landing a few weak body shots while inside while Ali clinches & holds on for the ref to break... I see this pattern continuing until the last 20-30 seconds were Ali puts a few strong-ish punches together as Joe comes in again, Joe takes them, ref breaks, same again, ref brakes, bell rings.

Ali wins a lethargic (from both mens point of view) round & the fight by unanimous decision.

Ps. Ali scoring a TKO wouldn`t be a shock either, Joe scoring a TKO/KO would be a long shot IMO.

Frazier winning a lacklustre round but losing the fight on points is definitely possible too.

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Old 05-14-2012, 11:48 AM   #27
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
He voluntarily sat down because he was gassed, a bit different from colapsing.

He did the same after the Foreman fight as he didn`t like all the chaos with so many people in the ring immediately after the fight... after he beat Foreman you can see some people lifting Ali up & him yelling at them to put him down, then he sits down in the middle of the ring.

Ali was obviously more gassed vs Frazier than vs George so he was happy to sit his ass down & have a moment to himself to recover both mentally & physically.... thats my take on it, right or wrong.


My take's the same Bill. It must have been hell being crowded out after a fight like that.


My take's the same
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:50 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb) View Post
With all respect Stevie (and you know I mean that fellah), I admire the way you are standing by your man on this one, but I gotta say I think you are stretching things a bit here, no offence intended.

I think Ali was all in...I think they were bith done physically, but Smoke wanted it more. Psychologically, I think Ali would ALWAYS have gone before Joe, Joe's hatred at the time was all-consuming, I honestly believe he would have died rather than quit to Ali...I don't think there was quite the sanme feeling the other way around...

I fully respect your point,FastHands,but I simply cannot envisage Ali quitting with one round to go.

How I still wish that he'd quit boxing for good after that fight.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Thrilla in Manilla question

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Remember Ali was the one who was yelling for Dundee to "cutem off!" I dont think he was kidding at that time. He was hurting.

He had hit Joe with everything. The pace was unreal for heavyweights from round 1 to begin with. The # of punches that Ali threw in the 13th and 14th almost assured that he wouldnt have had to try and coast in the 15th.

When you consider that heat that they were in I think anything was possible.

I just know that the image of Ali laying in the ring about 15 seconds after the fight was called off haunted Joe until he passed.
Agreed.

Both men were hurting after the 14th round.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:28 PM   #30
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I fully respect your point,FastHands,but I simply cannot envisage Ali quitting with one round to go.

.
I think they both wouldve come out of the 15th.

Ali didnt just say cutem off out of the blue he had told his corner that he thought he was dying after the 10th round.
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