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Old 05-15-2012, 08:23 AM   #1
Haggis McJackass
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Default Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

In the cage, and I guess in the ATG standings as well.

Would a win over current Junior be considered as good as a win over PRIDE-era Cro-Cop?

Discuss.

For me, this is why the Overeem fight falling through sucks so much. I would have liked Junior to win that fight by stoppage, and that would have truly cemented his place in the division's history.

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

Neither would take it to the ground so it's a no brainer. JDS's striking is ''good for MMA'' but Mirko's is K-1 level

Cro Cop all the way, get's JDS's respect with kicks to the legs and body, Juniors double jab causes problems, but he eats a few straight left counters as he keeps his right hand way to low
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

Current JDS for me too. Dont see anyone clean other than a prime Faydoor beating this guy
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:23 AM   #4
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

I really dont know Mirkos chin was never great but JDS had a hard time with old, shot Crocop who gave him his maybe toughest fight yet
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

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Originally Posted by PivotPunch View Post
I really dont know Mirkos chin was never great but JDS had a hard time with old, shot Crocop who gave him his maybe toughest fight yet
Stopped with a kod shot once in K1 & kodded 5 times in MMA, with 3 of those in his last 3 fights and the JDS loss was a body shot stoppage. His chin is fine in his prime
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

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Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
Stopped with a kod shot once in K1 & kodded 5 times in MMA, with 3 of those in his last 3 fights and the JDS loss was a body shot stoppage. His chin is fine
He had never a good chin and it got even worse. Im not one of those who say that a fighter has a glass chin because of a single fight but He got kod too often to say that they were lucky punches.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrxWai8PDgc[/ame]
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

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He had never a good chin and it got even worse. Im not one of those who say that a fighter has a glass chin because of a single fight but He got kod too often to say that they were lucky punches.
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He got kodded TWICE before the Gonzaga fight which is the point is started to let him down...not bad for a striker, certainly no Hendo, but could take a shot

Randleman was a HEAVY right hand as was McDonalds, and he wasnt unconscious flat on the mat snoring when the ref stopped it...
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

Mirko by being too well rounded.

He has the best striking that MMA has EVER seen, and arguably the greatest TDD that MMA has ever seen as well.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

Kickboxer beats boxer everytime so I'd give the edge to Mirko...particularly as JDS isn't the type of come forward fighter that would have got up close and put Mirko under pressure, something he never enjoyed.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

I like CC but his striking is overrated. CC has crazy kicks and JDS has crazy hands but I'd go with hands to beat kicks as JDS has the footwork.

I've always thought CC has some quit in him. Haven't seen that yet in JDS but you never know. I so wanted to see him vs a killer kickboxer like Overeem.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

Kicks were Mirko's best weapon, but he had good hands too, maybe better than JDS'. How would you rate Cro Cops hands achillies? Even shot Cro Cop found a home for his straight left v Junior, backed him up slightly a few times with it
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

I think it would depend on how much JDS pressed the fight.

If he closed the distance and got in Mirko's face, he get's the KO.

If he doesn't, then he get's his head kicked off.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

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Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
Kicks were Mirko's best weapon, but he had good hands too, maybe better than JDS'. How would you rate Cro Cops hands achillies? Even shot Cro Cop found a home for his straight left v Junior, backed him up slightly a few times with it
I've never rated his footwork and subsequently it messes up his hands. He'd cross his legs, be out of position and not have that range finding footwork like prime Chuck or JDS.

He has a quality straight left but alot of it has to do with his unwillingness to engage therefore making it so potent. It was fast and hard but you never knew when it would come. Mir said its what made their fight so boring, commit too much to such a negative fighter and it can be lights out.

There one key issue when assessing the CC vs JDS fight is CC doesn't engage much and that makes it ALOT easier to survive. The biggest risk is commiting to strikes for the reward. Thats the fun part, that whole risk vs reward scenario in every single exchange. Alot of fighters, especially with CC experience can survive a long time when not engaging. He did it against Fedor too. Not many fighters can force the stoppage. JDS managed to get it but its hard to overpower someone.

CC is very talented, fast and powerful but I think his best tool was he was so awkward. In the right fight (Wanderlei) we got all the fireworks though and he always will have one of the best quotes in the history of MMA. Perhaps JDS could change it to right hand hospital, left hand cemetry.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

Very good points, I agree with them all. He actually did that against JDS aswell (re the Fedor fight), fought with on the back foot, but had limited success and didnt attack at all as Im sure you are aware. He didnt utilise his kicks either

But Im surprised by how much Mirko could back him off throwing just that straight left and he was surprisingly stronger in the clinch as well, at least in the early going. JDS wisely starting throwing knees in those situations and they really seemed to drain Cro Cop as the fight wore on. He didnt utilise his kicks either, seemed content, to wing the occasional LHK, there was no low/leg kicks of note, which is where a puncher is most vulnerable against a kicker

Juniors best weapon is his jab/uppercut. His jab aint to shabby, but I think the follow up, sometimes a hook, can be very hit or miss, literally, because he puts so much into it. Id like to see him work on it a bit more, try a bit more placement rather than bludgeon people, Carwin and Nelson against the cage are good examples

But I do think Mirko at his best would be capable of keeping JDS off him for 15, be more interesting to see it for 25 though, could be a Diaz-esque overwhelm him late situation, or a Condit-esque hit and move fight.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: Prime Cro-Cop vs Current JDS

I was thinking of this the other night and planned on posting it after my *ahem* BAN was over.... Cro Cop all the way.
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