Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran.

Brand814 · 05-16-2012, 01:40 PM

I see he is generally regarded more or less as the best fighter of the 70's. I honestly don't know a whole lot about him, and it's shameful

. My excuse is he was before my time.

Anyway..

When was his 'prime' generally considered to be?

Top 10 wins of his career? I see thanks to boxrec that he did in fact lose to Hearns and Hagler both. Was this because he was past prime/above his optimal weight?

Also, anything else I should know? Thanks in advance!

DigMona · 05-16-2012, 02:04 PM

Ray Lampkin had him baffled and was unlucky not to have enough power to knock him out.....among other things.

sugarsean · 05-16-2012, 02:16 PM

Top Ten Wins

1. Ray Leonard
2. Esteban De Jesus II
3. Ken Buchanan
4. Iran Barkley
5. Ernesto Marcel
6. Carlos Palomino
7. Esteban De Jesus III
8. Hiroshi Kobayashi
9. Davey Moore
10. Pipino Cuevas

sugarsean · 05-16-2012, 02:28 PM

I would'nt worry about asking others, you should just watch all of his lightweight fights to see his true greatness, it also great to watch him as a overweight past it fighter, beat a stronger, bigger, fitter fighter in Barkley, with some great old school ring craft, he's one of the most intelligent fighters in history.

sugarsean · 05-16-2012, 02:31 PM

Heres one to get you started you should watch whatever you can get on him, trust me, I don't see how he won't become one of your favourites fighters

Here he is at only 20 years old, and fight like a seasoned pro

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knrzFSvAn_0[/ame]

Flea Man · 05-16-2012, 02:36 PM

Against a former champion and a technically sound operator no less, Kobayashi was very good, if past his best by then (still no joke) and that was Duran BEFORE Arcel

Marcel fight impresses me big time. Palomino might be his best performance. Barkley a past prime phenomenon. Leonard I one of the greater single victories of all time.

Too much to list without going on a rant and saying things we've all said a hundred times over. An all-round fighting machine of the very highest order. One of the very greatest.

sugarsean · 05-16-2012, 02:38 PM

Here he is at 21years old in his first fight for the lightweight championship against Buchanan

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9cED9WxQUg[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE_uZtL3hr0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE_uZtL3hr0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLyQMNzVcg[/ame]

the cobra · 05-16-2012, 02:42 PM

I'm going to say things we've all said hundreds of times over because I like saying these things and I have nothing else to do. Just a nice, big summary is all. This will likely be excessively long, but you asked, so it's on you:

Duran's career started in the late 60's and he was in his prime from about '73-'80. Absolute peak performances are DeJesus III, Palomino, and Leonard I. Three of the finest displays you will ever see in the history of boxing. Even before the monumental win over Leonard (maybe the best of all time) he had forged an exceptional career. 72-1 with 12 defenses of the Lightweight crown, his lone loss (that to a fantastic fighter) was avenged twice by way of brutal stoppage, and he had scored impressive victories at 130, 135, 140, and already even up to 147. Buchanan, Palomino, DeJesus 2x, Marcel, Sazuki, Viruet 2x, Villa, Kobayashi, Lampkin, etc. Stepping up to Welterweight and handing Ray Leonard his only prime loss was obviously the highlight of his career, but he'd score a few more impressive feats in the 80's.

Duran was a natural Lightweight who could fight comfortably at 147 as well, but the move up to 154 was a bit of a step too far. His legs in particular had slowed down noticeably by the time he was campaigning at the weight. His physical strength advantage was gone for the most part against natural Welterweights+ as well, and obviously, his power was going to have less affect and he was going to be more vulnerable to the bigger guys. Hagler and Hearns were not only much bigger guys at their peaks, they were two of the greatest fighters in history, many regard Hearns as the best 154lbs fighter of all time and plenty see Hagler as the best Middleweight ever as well. No shame for a faded Lightweight to lose to them. The problem Duran seems to face is that he's known mostly as an 80's fighter by the casual fan due to his fighting the best of that decade, but the 70's was Duran's era. Duran continuing to fight into the 80's would be like Hagler continuing to fight in the 90's, only doing so as a Light Heavyweight (Duran, of course, did actually fight into the 90's himself, even scored a victory over rated Middleweight contender Jorge Castro in the decade).

Now, his losses in the 80's shouldn't just be swept away. They still matter, but you have to recognize that he was no longer at his best nor competing at his best weight by the time the decade rolled around. He still managed some quality work in the 80's - ruthlessly battering the favored Davey Moore, giving Hagler his toughest title defense, claiming a Middleweight title 17 years after he captured the Lightweight title by defeating Iran Barkley, stomping Pipino Cuevas into the ground, etc - but all of that was just icing on the cake.

He had a remarkable, wholly unique career and at his peak, was as good as any fighter boxing has ever seen with the lone possible exception of Ray Robinson. Most consider him to be one of the 10 greatest boxers ever, and I'm in full agreement with them.

robert ungurean · 05-16-2012, 02:50 PM

My all time P4P best

the cobra · 05-16-2012, 02:50 PM

But yeah, just watch him fight.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtuoN_NEHNI[/ame]

lora · 05-16-2012, 02:51 PM

Monzon was the slightly superior champion during the 70s.Keep that in mind and you won't go far wrong.

Flea Man · 05-16-2012, 02:51 PM

He didn't fight Cervantes or Muangsurin for a 140lb strap, but he did beat top contender Monroe Brooks and future champion Saoul Mamby.

sugarsean · 05-16-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Against a former champion and a technically sound operator no less, Kobayashi was very good, if past his best by then (still no joke) and that was Duran BEFORE Arcel

Marcel fight impresses me big time. Palomino might be his best performance. Barkley a past prime phenomenon. Leonard I one of the greater single victories of all time.

Too much to list without going on a rant and saying things we've all said a hundred times over. An all-round fighting machine of the very highest order. One of the very greatest.

I always felt from watching his fights pre Arcel/Brown, that there biggest contribution was more in regards to conditioning (Brown) and motivating him betweens rounds (Arcel), Arcel himself said when he first saw Duran, was not to change anything Duran did, I think where Arcel really contributed was between rounds, you can see him really pumping Duran up in Leonard I, Buchanan fights and many others.

Flea Man · 05-16-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lora

Monzon was the slightly superior champion during the 70s.Keep that in mind and you won't go far wrong.

But Duran is greater overall. The 80s my friend. A Flock Of Seagulls, BETAMAX, Blue Monday, E.T, Rick Astley, Duran avenging Kalule and beating the shit outta' Davey Moore, Flea Man born. Good decade.

sugarsean · 05-16-2012, 02:57 PM

Here getting revenge against De Jesus in there first rematch, great fight

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3naHd1XPBkA[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR3GDPjM-j0&feature=relmfu[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRt-Rbjluqc&feature=relmfu[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Ru8uYm23k&feature=relmfu[/ame]

05-16-2012, 01:40 PM	#1
Brand814 Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 236 vCash: 500	Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. I see he is generally regarded more or less as the best fighter of the 70's. I honestly don't know a whole lot about him, and it's shameful . My excuse is he was before my time. Anyway.. When was his 'prime' generally considered to be? Top 10 wins of his career? I see thanks to boxrec that he did in fact lose to Hearns and Hagler both. Was this because he was past prime/above his optimal weight? Also, anything else I should know? Thanks in advance!
Top

05-16-2012, 02:04 PM	#2
DigMona Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 324 vCash: 500	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Ray Lampkin had him baffled and was unlucky not to have enough power to knock him out.....among other things.
Top

05-16-2012, 02:16 PM	#3
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Top Ten Wins 1. Ray Leonard 2. Esteban De Jesus II 3. Ken Buchanan 4. Iran Barkley 5. Ernesto Marcel 6. Carlos Palomino 7. Esteban De Jesus III 8. Hiroshi Kobayashi 9. Davey Moore 10. Pipino Cuevas
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05-16-2012, 02:28 PM	#4
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. I would'nt worry about asking others, you should just watch all of his lightweight fights to see his true greatness, it also great to watch him as a overweight past it fighter, beat a stronger, bigger, fitter fighter in Barkley, with some great old school ring craft, he's one of the most intelligent fighters in history.
Top

05-16-2012, 02:31 PM	#5
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Heres one to get you started you should watch whatever you can get on him, trust me, I don't see how he won't become one of your favourites fighters Here he is at only 20 years old, and fight like a seasoned pro [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knrzFSvAn_0[/ame]
Top

05-16-2012, 02:36 PM	#6
Flea Man มวยสากล East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: @ferociousflea Posts: 44,045 vCash: 75	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Against a former champion and a technically sound operator no less, Kobayashi was very good, if past his best by then (still no joke) and that was Duran BEFORE Arcel Marcel fight impresses me big time. Palomino might be his best performance. Barkley a past prime phenomenon. Leonard I one of the greater single victories of all time. Too much to list without going on a rant and saying things we've all said a hundred times over. An all-round fighting machine of the very highest order. One of the very greatest.
Top

05-16-2012, 02:38 PM	#7
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Here he is at 21years old in his first fight for the lightweight championship against Buchanan [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9cED9WxQUg[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE_uZtL3hr0[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE_uZtL3hr0[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLyQMNzVcg[/ame]
Top

05-16-2012, 02:42 PM	#8
the cobra Awesomeizationism! East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,990 vCash: 1000	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. I'm going to say things we've all said hundreds of times over because I like saying these things and I have nothing else to do. Just a nice, big summary is all. This will likely be excessively long, but you asked, so it's on you: Duran's career started in the late 60's and he was in his prime from about '73-'80. Absolute peak performances are DeJesus III, Palomino, and Leonard I. Three of the finest displays you will ever see in the history of boxing. Even before the monumental win over Leonard (maybe the best of all time) he had forged an exceptional career. 72-1 with 12 defenses of the Lightweight crown, his lone loss (that to a fantastic fighter) was avenged twice by way of brutal stoppage, and he had scored impressive victories at 130, 135, 140, and already even up to 147. Buchanan, Palomino, DeJesus 2x, Marcel, Sazuki, Viruet 2x, Villa, Kobayashi, Lampkin, etc. Stepping up to Welterweight and handing Ray Leonard his only prime loss was obviously the highlight of his career, but he'd score a few more impressive feats in the 80's. Duran was a natural Lightweight who could fight comfortably at 147 as well, but the move up to 154 was a bit of a step too far. His legs in particular had slowed down noticeably by the time he was campaigning at the weight. His physical strength advantage was gone for the most part against natural Welterweights+ as well, and obviously, his power was going to have less affect and he was going to be more vulnerable to the bigger guys. Hagler and Hearns were not only much bigger guys at their peaks, they were two of the greatest fighters in history, many regard Hearns as the best 154lbs fighter of all time and plenty see Hagler as the best Middleweight ever as well. No shame for a faded Lightweight to lose to them. The problem Duran seems to face is that he's known mostly as an 80's fighter by the casual fan due to his fighting the best of that decade, but the 70's was Duran's era. Duran continuing to fight into the 80's would be like Hagler continuing to fight in the 90's, only doing so as a Light Heavyweight (Duran, of course, did actually fight into the 90's himself, even scored a victory over rated Middleweight contender Jorge Castro in the decade). Now, his losses in the 80's shouldn't just be swept away. They still matter, but you have to recognize that he was no longer at his best nor competing at his best weight by the time the decade rolled around. He still managed some quality work in the 80's - ruthlessly battering the favored Davey Moore, giving Hagler his toughest title defense, claiming a Middleweight title 17 years after he captured the Lightweight title by defeating Iran Barkley, stomping Pipino Cuevas into the ground, etc - but all of that was just icing on the cake. He had a remarkable, wholly unique career and at his peak, was as good as any fighter boxing has ever seen with the lone possible exception of Ray Robinson. Most consider him to be one of the 10 greatest boxers ever, and I'm in full agreement with them.
Top

05-16-2012, 02:50 PM	#9
robert ungurean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: liftin 3 kettlebells in pa.usa Posts: 2,172 vCash: 1000	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. My all time P4P best
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05-16-2012, 02:51 PM	#11
lora Fighting Zapata East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5,444 vCash: 500	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Monzon was the slightly superior champion during the 70s.Keep that in mind and you won't go far wrong.
Top

05-16-2012, 02:57 PM	#15
sugarsean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: England Posts: 2,381 vCash: 1057	Re: Somebody School Me On Roberto Duran. Here getting revenge against De Jesus in there first rematch, great fight [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3naHd1XPBkA[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR3GDPjM-j0&feature=relmfu[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRt-Rbjluqc&feature=relmfu[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Ru8uYm23k&feature=relmfu[/ame]
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