Cormier on Josh Barnetts Generation

[monaroCountry]

Mma

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

I agree with all of this. Fans for what ever reason are too quick to dismiss fighters that have grown old citing they have not evolved. When there is no evidence at all -most certainly at heavyweight that is- that the fighters are evolving. The only thing that has happened is they've gotten bigger. Skillwise though they are certainly weaker.

As a result more drug positives as well.

Lets see how the current new breeds fare in 10 years time. We know that the new breeds of Brock and his lot didnt even last 5 years .

Now compare them to fighters like Fedor, Barnett, Overeem and AS who all had the skills to fight all new comers and have the staying power.

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

GAY!

You want to push his stool dont you? why? not getting enough loving from Dana White?

I dont thing EL BULLY swings that way, so Stoo, go climb back in Danas bed.

You've gone full HENDO fella, didnt think you could get any moronic, but you have managed it

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by Stoo

You've gone full HENDO fella, didnt think you could get any moronic, but you have managed it

Just following your example. But your the best at being moronic

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

Just following your example. But your the best at being moronic

We'll take your fetish obsession for bald chubby white men elsewhere if you dont like it fella. Otherwise it's a free country

[achillesthegreat]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Except every fighter Fedor lost to was a veteran of the sport that certainly didn't represent this so called evolution of MMA.

All 3 of them are still trying to improve. Perhaps not so much Hendo as he is stuck in his ways but insane durability and power like that are alot to do with nature.

[achillesthegreat]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

Lets look at the new breeds who are supposed to be so well rounded, so tell me how many submission wins JDS, Cain Velasquez and Brock Lesnar has?

The old guard like Fedor, Overeem, AS and Barnett are far more well rounded. Guys like Fedor was a top level judoka and samboist fighter who is very very good at striking as well, guys like Overeem is also a very good kickboxer who is pretty damn good on the mat.

I think MMA has devolved and has gone away from guys being a top level at one field to very very good in everything else. Today all you have is everyone being just ok at all skills.

It's not how many submission wins they have but they learn more about subs defence, takedown defence etc so they can enforce their game.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by achillesthegreat

All 3 of them are still trying to improve. Perhaps not so much Hendo as he is stuck in his ways but insane durability and power like that are alot to do with nature.

Extremely difficult to prove that going by the results. Silva is still effectively the same guy he was when he turned pro. Werdums is still one dimensional with his subs. And Dan fights the same way he always. Dudes been durable since he turned pro. Don't see how durability represents evolution though when Dan is clearly an extreme case. Either way fighters in the early days were far more tougher than they are now, Dan being one of the last of that era. So if anything fighters in that respect have devolved.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by achillesthegreat

It's not how many submission wins they have but they learn more about subs defence, takedown defence etc so they can enforce their game.

But thats what CC did when he left the K-1 to come to PRIDE and he did it better than anyone else from a pure striking discipline. Matter of fact his TDD was as good as Chucks and Chuck had the advantage of his wrestling background. Equally iv seen CC defend many subs on the mat. Bearing in mind CC's only ever been subbed by Nog id say that was some excellent company.
Brock in his first fight in the UFC got knee barred and classically left his leg out which many veterans called prior to the fight even happening. So where's the evolution?

[Ubersteve]

I don't think the super evolved athelete ala GSP, Jon Jones, Rory MacDonald has hit heavyweight. JDS is well rounded, but doesn't quite hit me with the aura those guys do, where you feel their opponent is getting fucked wherever the fight goes.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by Ubersteve

I don't think the super evolved athelete ala GSP, Jon Jones, Rory MacDonald has hit heavyweight. JDS is well rounded, but doesn't quite hit me with the aura those guys do, where you feel their opponent is getting fucked wherever the fight goes.

I don't see GSP or Jones as the evolution of the sport. Those guys are prototypes. When GSP first came to the UFC i don't recall anyone tripping over themself in the fashion Jones has shook up 205. GSP was humbled by Hughes and only really arrived after he started putting together a great string of wins vs veterans in his division. Then he utterly tooled Hughes in the rematch and his hype took off.
That said GSP is exceptional in that he truly is a multi-faceted athlete. In that respect he's better than Jones head to head. Because Jones has the benefit of height and length as well as almost Sakuraba-esque style with his unorthodoxy. These guys are the exception. Not the rule. So personally i don't agree at all with this whole evolution schtick.

The only guy who has ever truly looked well rounded, invincible, and light years ahead of his peers was Fedor. Whether it was on the ground or standing you were getting fucked up. And fucked up bad. He beat a prime CC on his feet. And beat to fuck a prime Nog in his guard. That was evolution as no one had ever -prior to Nog- seen a heavy capable of what Fedor did against top competition bearing in mind Fedor physically never looked like much cop, and was almost always at a disadvantage physically.

[Stoo]

I still remember expecting Georges to get tooled in the 2nd fight with Hughes, coming off the BJ Penn performance. I thought no way was he out wrestling Hughes like he did against Baby Jay in rounds 2 and 3

Another thing, everyone who think GSP developed into a wrestler should really go watch his 1st fight in the UFC. He took down Karo at will and kept him there for long periods. It's another great MMA myth that GSP turned into a wrestler because of the Hughes loss and he was worried about his chin after the Serra fight

[Ubersteve]

I think Jones has the Fedor aura about him. I really don't think anyone could come close to beating the guy.

GSP is different I agree in that he lost, went away and evolved, embraced a weakness and eventually turned it into his biggest strength.



But then Anderson Silva is the most dominant fighter ever, so who knows?

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Ubersteve

I think Jones has the Fedor aura about him. I really don't think anyone could come close to beating the guy.

GSP is different I agree in that he lost, went away and evolved, embraced a weakness and eventually turned it into his biggest strength.



But then Anderson Silva is the most dominant fighter ever, so who knows?

Read my post above fella, it aint true. GSP's wrestling was great before Matt. No doubt it got better though

[Ubersteve]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I still remember expecting Georges to get tooled in the 2nd fight with Hughes, coming off the BJ Penn performance. I thought no way was he out wrestling Hughes like he did against Baby Jay in rounds 2 and 3

Another thing, everyone who think GSP developed into a wrestler should really go watch his 1st fight in the UFC. It's another great MMA myth that GSP turned into a wrestler because he was worried about his chin after the Serra fight

He evolved and concentrated on his wretling to a great extent. It became his focus, he was the first top level guy to embrace something that wasn't his speciality above what originally brought him to the dance. He's certainly the first athelete in MMA talented enough to concentrate on the disciplines of others and totally outshine them in it, rag-dolling elite wrestlers like Koscheck. He's the best wrestler in MMA and he doesn't have a wrestling background, which is just incredible.