Is it time for mandatory drug testing?

[macho_grande]

Khan said something similar a few years after he turned pro. He said he'd never been tested. I think he'd been a pro a good few years to.

[shaunster101]

I don't think testing is the be all and end all as some people seem to. I think the effects of a deep and comprehensive testing protocol would be that a bunch of guys further down the rankings end up getting busted. You might catch some big names out at first as you make the transition to the stricter testing, but not enough.

The fighters making the money in the sport can pay for the stuff that can't be tested, just like Marion Jones, Kelli White, Tim Montgomery, Dwain Chambers, Shane Mosley could. It's the fighters who want to compete with the top guys but who can't afford the top substances who will suffer.

In my opinion there's not much that can be done to stop it. There's so much money in the sport and the PED industry that they will always be keeping one step ahead of the testers. You have to remember, the whole Balco scandal only came out because a guy who was receiving their steroids sent a vile to the anti doping agency. Otherwise they'd more than likely still be producing that, or another substance that can't be tested.

For fuck sake, the guy Marquez hired for the Pacquiao fight had previously admitted to developing several variations of HGH and steroids which cannot be detected by the all year round random drug testing used in athletics. Then he shows up in Marquez training camp under an alias and Marquez looks in the best shape of his career

[icemax]

Originally Posted by shaunster101

I don't think testing is the be all and end all as some people seem to. I think the effects of a deep and comprehensive testing protocol would be that a bunch of guys further down the rankings end up getting busted. You might catch some big names out at first as you make the transition to the stricter testing, but not enough.

The effect over time would be to stop fighters who juice in their tracks before they get to the top....its not as though high level, top of their game athletes don't get caught. The alternative to testing is not to test and that is completely unacceptable

[Spearmint Rhino]

Originally Posted by shaunster101

I don't think testing is the be all and end all as some people seem to. I think the effects of a deep and comprehensive testing protocol would be that a bunch of guys further down the rankings end up getting busted. You might catch some big names out at first as you make the transition to the stricter testing, but not enough.

The fighters making the money in the sport can pay for the stuff that can't be tested, just like Marion Jones, Kelli White, Tim Montgomery, Dwain Chambers, Shane Mosley could. It's the fighters who want to compete with the top guys but who can't afford the top substances who will suffer.

In my opinion there's not much that can be done to stop it. There's so much money in the sport and the PED industry that they will always be keeping one step ahead of the testers. You have to remember, the whole Balco scandal only came out because a guy who was receiving their steroids sent a vile to the anti doping agency. Otherwise they'd more than likely still be producing that, or another substance that can't be tested.

For fuck sake, the guy Marquez hired for the Pacquiao fight had previously admitted to developing several variations of HGH and steroids which cannot be detected by the all year round random drug testing used in athletics. Then he shows up in Marquez training camp under an alias and Marquez looks in the best shape of his career

I agree.

This applies to all sports really.

The ones that really need busting are the ones who can afford to pay to get away with it.

For instance, a league 2 footballer who needs to play better to earn a contract to pay the mortgage.... he might think ''fuck it'' and start using. All of a sudden, he's more energetic and earns his new deal.

The USADA costs of between $50-100k are ridiculous, if they want to prevent athletes cheating they need to run the operation at cost. Surely testing a few vials doesn't cost that much?

Cycling is probably the worst sport, apparently it's almost impossible to reach the top without cheating.

[icemax]

Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino

Cycling is probably the worst sport, apparently it's almost impossible to reach the top without cheating.

And its the sport which formally introduced drugs testing in the first place I think. Until fairly recently however riders were banned from using certain substances not because of the competetive advantage that it gave them but for their own safety

[shaunster101]

Originally Posted by icemax

The effect over time would be to stop fighters who juice in their tracks before they get to the top....its not as though high level, top of their game athletes don't get caught. The alternative to testing is not to test and that is completely unacceptable

I don't disagree with you, I just don't think it's something that can be stopped. Doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try, by you're only going to end up catching a small percentage of the users. As long as people are still using, then there is a problem because if I'm number three in the world and the guys between me and the title are still doping then it forces my hand, and so on and so on.

I don't see how you stop it. If there is more money available for the people supplying the athletes with drugs than there is to the testers then they'll always be one step ahead.

[chatty]

I've always said it and stick to it - in all sports where athleticism helps you excel at the very top nearly every single athlete will be on PEDS. I have talked to many top athletes and all of them have said that performance drugs are rife.

They basically change the drug a tiny amount so that it is deemed legal and then they can get away with it until its deemed otherwise. The recent spate of failures is probably down to the fact that the drug testing authorities have caught on but they will just modify the drug and no one will get caught for a while.

[shaunster101]

Victor Conte said it best when he said 'it's not cheating if everyone else is doing it'. He said that all these athletes are doing are playing by THE REAL rules. If pretty much every one of your competitors is using PEDS then that is the real playing field. It doesn't matter what the governing bodies are saying - the athletes set the real rules.

[Barlivia]

Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino

I agree.

This applies to all sports really.

The ones that really need busting are the ones who can afford to pay to get away with it.

For instance, a league 2 footballer who needs to play better to earn a contract to pay the mortgage.... he might think ''fuck it'' and start using. All of a sudden, he's more energetic and earns his new deal.

The USADA costs of between $50-100k are ridiculous, if they want to prevent athletes cheating they need to run the operation at cost. Surely testing a few vials doesn't cost that much?

Cycling is probably the worst sport, apparently it's almost impossible to reach the top without cheating.

Cycling is doing its best to clean itself up it's gotten a fair bad rap recently and rightly so and I dunno if it'll ever be free from it.

When you've got millions of dollars at stake in high profile fights people are gonna try and use any advantage they can. All sports are affected, wait for the olympics this summer and see there are still people being caught in a variety of sports. A survey was done a few years ago and athletes were asked would they take performance enhancing drugs if it ment that they would stay at top level all their careers and be successful but you would die at a young age!! Not sure exactly the figure but a high proportion said they would take them

The high cost of testing is only made higher then when VADA have to travel to the philippines to test pacquiao and kahn but they can afford it, unless that cost is brought down somehow it wont be enforced at all levels

[Barlivia]

Originally Posted by shaunster101

Victor Conte said it best when he said 'it's not cheating if everyone else is doing it'. He said that all these athletes are doing are playing by THE REAL rules. If pretty much every one of your competitors is using PEDS then that is the real playing field. It doesn't matter what the governing bodies are saying - the athletes set the real rules.

So is he saying leave athletes off to their own devices and whoever can afford the best will be the best?? Doesn't sound fair to me

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by icemax

And its the sport which formally introduced drugs testing in the first place I think. Until fairly recently however riders were banned from using certain substances not because of the competetive advantage that it gave them but for their own safety

This. Back in the day they were whizzing off their tits and it caused se horrific incidents.

[Spearmint Rhino]

I think there's only two options.

Full, mandatory drug testing, or just let people take what they want - in which case it's no longer cheating.

Boxing, and most other sports is at a bit of a half way house in that respect, which makes it pointless.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by icemax

I don't think so, I believe that the famed modern conditioning is to blame for that. Draining down to an unsustainable weight and ballooning up afterwards takes its toll. If fighters fought at their true weight then we'd see them out 4 -5 times a year.

Also my opinion, good point well made.

[mgmark7]

Perhaps the time has come to allow athletes to use whatever substance they want to. There are many smart people who will create new substances or find ways around testing processes. Even if an athlete is "clean" and passes every test there will still be those who will say the athlete used something.

[shaunster101]

Originally Posted by Barlivia

So is he saying leave athletes off to their own devices and whoever can afford the best will be the best?? Doesn't sound fair to me

No, I don't think he wanted that. He was just responding to a question if he felt shame for having helped athletes cheat their opponents. He said no, because he wasn't helping his athletes do anything their opponents wasn't already doing.

I think it was Kelli White who was disqualified and had her gold medal taken back. The medals were then awarded to the competitors who finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th - all of whom also ended up failing tests for anabolic steroids.