guys who USE the shoulder roll

Big N Bad · 05-19-2012, 05:45 PM

countering right hand.
shoulder ala james toney, holyfied (with the cross arm) and mike mccallum (a simple bend to the right- followed by counter right)

i have noticed when i roll like mccallum or duck like him i get hit to the back of the head, this move seem very dangerous cos its not nice getting banged at the back of your head.

toneys way of rolling is good as he doesnt expose the back of his head.
holyfields way seems the best as he counters back fast and is well protected due to his right hand protecting his head.

what are your thoughts from your own personal experience? just that icve been getting hit at the back of the head and its not cool. i understand why some fighters dont utilise this into their arsenal ala george foreman and stick to simple blocking, parrying.

david tua was quite good at rolling ala holyfield (maybe cos they had same trainer) he would use the cross arm defense

East Side · 05-19-2012, 11:26 PM

my experience is that if you learn to roll and counter with both the left and right hands it will open a new world of fighting for you. its not so easy to learn, you will take shots trying to learn it. but if you get it and get it good you'll improve your game expotentially, its like it opens you to a new world of boxing.

brown bomber · 05-20-2012, 01:09 AM

Ur dipping too frequently to your right then mix it up

JDK · 05-20-2012, 01:16 AM

I've never been hit to the back of the head either when rolling or slipping and turning. So no advice I can give.
Possible you're turning to an extreme extent to where you're almost showing your back to your sparring partner.
Maybe you're sparring very tall fighters or you're fighting so low, that over the top right hands land whether your roll or not.
Keep practicing though. For sure punches will land a whole lot until you get better or you decide this style is not for you.
Don't do it half assed though. This style should give you a pretty good view of the right hand coming from far. So if done right, you should at the very least see the punch coming and the impact should be more bearable lol.
That's how I remember it when I started (without knowing what the shoulder roll was). I'd rather take a shot I would see, than to shell up, block my view and get hit from unexpected angles.

boxbible · 05-22-2012, 07:30 PM

You got to get under the punch also when you roll by bending the knees slightly.

Or, are you rolling forward? Because, as you roll, you gotta slide away from the punch too. Your head has to move with the punch.

marcianop4p · 05-22-2012, 08:38 PM

check out mayweather doing it he does it really well.

BoxinScienceUSA · 05-26-2012, 01:03 AM

a big difference is that holyfield places his hand between his jaw and shoulder. this squares him slightly, which makes for quicker lead hook counters but ... he's squared up.
-when you show more chest, to slip shift your weight to your back leg, to take your head off center line

toney keeps his right shoulder down and his left shoulder up, with his left shoulder against his left cheek/jaw.
-to slip like toney, because he's so narrow, all you have to do is a half squat and make your opponent's jab go over your shoulders like a weight bar. or, like old lazy toney just bow to your audience.

Big N Bad · 08-15-2012, 01:47 PM

after some experimenting, im back with some details
this is the move i was doing and getting clobbered for-
2:20
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44MfOd_XeSw[/ame]
continously bending to the right, is very predictable and you will get clobbered at the back of the head. im starting to thing where they this dangerous move originated from as i dont see any old timers do this excessively.

i wouldnt even call it a proper shoulder roll, its what mike mccallum does the best but if you dont roll after bending to the right, or counter with it quick, YOU CAN get knocked out bad! as the punch will land hard on the side or back of the head.

there are certain times where bending to the right is fine but not all the time imo.
i think one should use their right glove and left elbow as a extra shield when bending to the right. david tua and evander holyfield do this well.

i was watching old time fighters who i would say are complete fighters and mix up their defenses like sam langford and charley burley. i noticed when they would use the shoulder roll, they would do it from an upright position and use their gloves, shoulders and elbows to block rather than simply bending to the right as you are still vulnerable- see video above.

thoughts?

Big N Bad · 08-15-2012, 01:51 PM

1:25 and 3:45
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp9lkBqm6bQ[/ame]
watch charley burley roll with the punches on the ropes....awesome.

Big N Bad · 08-15-2012, 02:17 PM

watching sam langford fight
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvdt3xm3ql0[/ame]

i see this great small fighter doesnt use ANY WASTEFUL head movement. its a pleasure watching this guy.

he blocks right hands ala joe frazier. using right glove/forearm.

SugarRayRobin · 08-15-2012, 06:07 PM

Although he doesn't use the shoulder roll like you are looking for, watch some Pernell Whitaker highlights if you wanna see the best at avoiding being hit.

boxbible · 08-16-2012, 11:29 AM

nicolino locche was an absolute master... you can also check out jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, and bob satterfield.

05-19-2012, 05:45 PM	#1
Big N Bad Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,229 vCash: 1000	guys who USE the shoulder roll countering right hand. shoulder ala james toney, holyfied (with the cross arm) and mike mccallum (a simple bend to the right- followed by counter right) i have noticed when i roll like mccallum or duck like him i get hit to the back of the head, this move seem very dangerous cos its not nice getting banged at the back of your head. toneys way of rolling is good as he doesnt expose the back of his head. holyfields way seems the best as he counters back fast and is well protected due to his right hand protecting his head. what are your thoughts from your own personal experience? just that icve been getting hit at the back of the head and its not cool. i understand why some fighters dont utilise this into their arsenal ala george foreman and stick to simple blocking, parrying. david tua was quite good at rolling ala holyfield (maybe cos they had same trainer) he would use the cross arm defense
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05-19-2012, 11:26 PM	#2
East Side Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 200 vCash: 500	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll my experience is that if you learn to roll and counter with both the left and right hands it will open a new world of fighting for you. its not so easy to learn, you will take shots trying to learn it. but if you get it and get it good you'll improve your game expotentially, its like it opens you to a new world of boxing. Last edited by East Side; 05-20-2012 at 12:46 AM.
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05-20-2012, 01:09 AM	#3
brown bomber 2010 Poster of the Year East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,405 vCash: 1000	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll Ur dipping too frequently to your right then mix it up
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05-20-2012, 01:16 AM	#4
JDK Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,116 vCash: 675	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll I've never been hit to the back of the head either when rolling or slipping and turning. So no advice I can give. Possible you're turning to an extreme extent to where you're almost showing your back to your sparring partner. Maybe you're sparring very tall fighters or you're fighting so low, that over the top right hands land whether your roll or not. Keep practicing though. For sure punches will land a whole lot until you get better or you decide this style is not for you. Don't do it half assed though. This style should give you a pretty good view of the right hand coming from far. So if done right, you should at the very least see the punch coming and the impact should be more bearable lol. That's how I remember it when I started (without knowing what the shoulder roll was). I'd rather take a shot I would see, than to shell up, block my view and get hit from unexpected angles.
Top

05-22-2012, 07:30 PM	#5
boxbible Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wash DC Posts: 491 vCash: 1000	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll You got to get under the punch also when you roll by bending the knees slightly. Or, are you rolling forward? Because, as you roll, you gotta slide away from the punch too. Your head has to move with the punch.
Top

05-22-2012, 08:38 PM	#6
marcianop4p Journeyman Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 85 vCash: 500	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll check out mayweather doing it he does it really well.
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05-26-2012, 01:03 AM	#7
BoxinScienceUSA Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 100 vCash: 500	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll a big difference is that holyfield places his hand between his jaw and shoulder. this squares him slightly, which makes for quicker lead hook counters but ... he's squared up. -when you show more chest, to slip shift your weight to your back leg, to take your head off center line toney keeps his right shoulder down and his left shoulder up, with his left shoulder against his left cheek/jaw. -to slip like toney, because he's so narrow, all you have to do is a half squat and make your opponent's jab go over your shoulders like a weight bar. or, like old lazy toney just bow to your audience.
Top

08-15-2012, 01:47 PM	#8
Big N Bad Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,229 vCash: 1000	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll after some experimenting, im back with some details this is the move i was doing and getting clobbered for- 2:20 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44MfOd_XeSw[/ame] continously bending to the right, is very predictable and you will get clobbered at the back of the head. im starting to thing where they this dangerous move originated from as i dont see any old timers do this excessively. i wouldnt even call it a proper shoulder roll, its what mike mccallum does the best but if you dont roll after bending to the right, or counter with it quick, YOU CAN get knocked out bad! as the punch will land hard on the side or back of the head. there are certain times where bending to the right is fine but not all the time imo. i think one should use their right glove and left elbow as a extra shield when bending to the right. david tua and evander holyfield do this well. i was watching old time fighters who i would say are complete fighters and mix up their defenses like sam langford and charley burley. i noticed when they would use the shoulder roll, they would do it from an upright position and use their gloves, shoulders and elbows to block rather than simply bending to the right as you are still vulnerable- see video above. thoughts? Last edited by Big N Bad; 08-15-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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08-15-2012, 01:51 PM	#9
Big N Bad Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,229 vCash: 1000	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll 1:25 and 3:45 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp9lkBqm6bQ[/ame] watch charley burley roll with the punches on the ropes....awesome.
Top

08-15-2012, 02:17 PM	#10
Big N Bad Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,229 vCash: 1000	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll watching sam langford fight [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvdt3xm3ql0[/ame] i see this great small fighter doesnt use ANY WASTEFUL head movement. its a pleasure watching this guy. he blocks right hands ala joe frazier. using right glove/forearm.
Top

08-15-2012, 06:07 PM	#11
SugarRayRobin Journeyman Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 89 vCash: 1055	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll Although he doesn't use the shoulder roll like you are looking for, watch some Pernell Whitaker highlights if you wanna see the best at avoiding being hit.
Top

08-16-2012, 11:29 AM	#12
boxbible Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wash DC Posts: 491 vCash: 1000	Re: guys who USE the shoulder roll nicolino locche was an absolute master... you can also check out jersey joe walcott, ezzard charles, and bob satterfield.
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