Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #31
leedsnproud
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 188
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
I remember when Gerry Cooney was coming up the ranks in the very early '80s. He had devastating offensive capabilities and a killer left hook. A big, tall, hulking guy with reach, power, and an educated left. Everyone was gung ho about Cooney, expecting that he was a future champ.

But nobody seemed concerned about whether Cooney could absorb a heavy blow to the chin. None of Cooney's opponents could reach him, so nobody cared.

Ultimately, it came out that Cooney's chin was quite weak. Against Holmes and Spinks, Cooney's legs turned to jelly every time to absorbed a right.
I remember it well. Thats why we have to see Price tested before we start getting excited. Hes definately got huge potential,but I fear he may be vulnerable,with a chin like Vlad Klit had a few years ago.
leedsnproud is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #32
lester proctor
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,068
vCash: 500
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by connorcinhull View Post
13(11)-0-0.

Amateurs are different to pros.. Who cares?
It's not a bad indicator. Sillakh was thought to have a bad chin based on AMs. Wilder also. Not that this one had been proven, but nobody would be shocked.
lester proctor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #33
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,841
vCash: 26665
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
I know Holmes's career much better than you do. I grew up in that era, and watched his fights on live TV. I followed Holmes for years.

I don't know what happened in the Wells fight. That was never discussed in the '70s and '80s. Until a film surfaces, I have my doubts that Holmes was hurt "pretty seriously," as you allege based on hearsay.


And yes, in the Tyson fight Holmes was getting caught consistently with power punches for the first time in his pro career, really. Norton, Weaver, and Shavers hit Holmes previously, but none of them could land more than a single big bomb at a time: Holmes was too mobile and elusive for them. But Larry's elusiveness was gone by 1988, which is why Tyson connected repeatedly.

"Decreased punch resistance" is what's implied by your first post
.

It's interesting that I was just thinking something similar to this, only pointed in your direction. I followed him for many years as well and love to watch his fights over also.


What I do know is that officially listed Holmes lost to Wells twice in the amateurs by stoppage, once in the first round. What I have heard from more than one hardcore follower is that he was taken away on a stretcher after one match, which you've probably heard also, true or not. I think once was by a poster here who seemed legit, claiming to be Wells' own boy. But if we're just talking about him not really being hurt, I think he had his bell rung pretty good by Bobick in the amateurs, on film, which caused the holding issue, the way I remember it. Though I admit my memory is as fallible as anyone's. His powers of recovery as a pro were terrific, as was his will. That wasn't really on as much display in his amateur days, from what I've taken away.

All I'm going to say is that's simply incorrect from all I can personally recall, and some of it after seeing some of those fights recently, most of them in the past couple years, I've watched again. They all landed some good, short combinations on Larry at some point. Larry had a very good and crafty defense-he's one of my favourite heavies of all time, actually. I even rate him as the third best, of all time. But, this man did get scored upon by serious hitters in combination at times, during his heyday. His punch resistance as a pro can only be seen as significantly better, in my opinion and it was more than proven there, throughout his pro career. Not firstly seen with Tyson.

The reason they'd say things like "Larry's doing his poor man's Ali impression" is because it was a poor impression of it. He wasn't that difficult to tag. Very good defense-not great enough to have Tyson be the first to land telling combinations. I believe Weaver got him to trade landing multiples a few times, hurting him badly, and hurting him more than once. I just watched this fight over again not long ago. But, again, I can't see, from my perspective, how you can claim Tyson was the first time somebody was really catching up to him. It goes to show we all see things differently, I suppose.

Your're incorrectly pulling implications out of my words that are not there then. I said nothing about Tyson scoring a knockout due to decreased punch resistance, implied nothing about it, and never even thought about it while typing it. So, let's get that clear, brother. Tyson got the stoppage because he was Tyson, not because Holmes couldn't take a punch anymore, obviously.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 03:49 PM   #34
Tuavale
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 852
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Kenmore's query is reasonable. That said. Fighters often find their man strength as they mature and get older. And, of course skills improve, reducing getting caught with clean shots. That said, as I see it now Price may be a serious force to be reconed with. He has athleticism for a big man and frightening power. Want to see this guy again and his climb up the ladder.
Tuavale is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:18 PM   #35
itsa huge bitch
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: in my house
Posts: 5,640
vCash: 762
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Pony up. Let's get the facts out. How many times did Price get KO'd as an amateur?
i couldnt tell you how many times he was knocked out.but it is common knowledge that when tagged on the chin he loses his senses badly..so he is going to have to adapt..personally i think hes a knockout waiting to happen.esp if he is being fed these guys for another 5-8 fights.he loads up way to early on his shots.which is exciting.but against a decent fighter he will be punished.weve seen it before and we will see it again
itsa huge bitch is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #36
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsa huge bitch View Post
i couldnt tell you how many times he was knocked out.but it is common knowledge that when tagged on the chin he loses his senses badly..so he is going to have to adapt..personally i think hes a knockout waiting to happen.esp if he is being fed these guys for another 5-8 fights.he loads up way to early on his shots.which is exciting.but against a decent fighter he will be punished.weve seen it before and we will see it again
What's the evidence behind this "common knowledge?" I'm not denying what you say, I'm just interested. I'd like to look deeper at this.

Are these gym stories...stemming from sparring experiences?
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:46 PM   #37
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuavale View Post
Kenmore's query is reasonable. That said. Fighters often find their man strength as they mature and get older. And, of course skills improve, reducing getting caught with clean shots. That said, as I see it now Price may be a serious force to be reconed with. He has athleticism for a big man and frightening power. Want to see this guy again and his climb up the ladder.
Tuavale: what do you think of the two Price amateur videos posted? Do you see evidence of recuperative ability, or vulnerability?

Last edited by kenmore; 05-20-2012 at 05:21 PM.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:58 PM   #38
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post

It's interesting that I was just thinking something similar to this, only pointed in your direction. I followed him for many years as well and love to watch his fights over also.


What I do know is that officially listed Holmes lost to Wells twice in the amateurs by stoppage, once in the first round. What I have heard from more than one hardcore follower is that he was taken away on a stretcher after one match, which you've probably heard also, true or not. I think once was by a poster here who seemed legit, claiming to be Wells' own boy. But if we're just talking about him not really being hurt, I think he had his bell rung pretty good by Bobick in the amateurs, on film, which caused the holding issue, the way I remember it. Though I admit my memory is as fallible as anyone's. His powers of recovery as a pro were terrific, as was his will. That wasn't really on as much display in his amateur days, from what I've taken away.

All I'm going to say is that's simply incorrect from all I can personally recall, and some of it after seeing some of those fights recently, most of them in the past couple years, I've watched again. They all landed some good, short combinations on Larry at some point. Larry had a very good and crafty defense-he's one of my favourite heavies of all time, actually. I even rate him as the third best, of all time. But, this man did get scored upon by serious hitters in combination at times, during his heyday. His punch resistance as a pro can only be seen as significantly better, in my opinion and it was more than proven there, throughout his pro career. Not firstly seen with Tyson.

The reason they'd say things like "Larry's doing his poor man's Ali impression" is because it was a poor impression of it. He wasn't that difficult to tag. Very good defense-not great enough to have Tyson be the first to land telling combinations. I believe Weaver got him to trade landing multiples a few times, hurting him badly, and hurting him more than once. I just watched this fight over again not long ago. But, again, I can't see, from my perspective, how you can claim Tyson was the first time somebody was really catching up to him. It goes to show we all see things differently, I suppose.

Your're incorrectly pulling implications out of my words that are not there then. I said nothing about Tyson scoring a knockout due to decreased punch resistance, implied nothing about it, and never even thought about it while typing it. So, let's get that clear, brother. Tyson got the stoppage because he was Tyson, not because Holmes couldn't take a punch anymore, obviously.
Okay...I'll give you credit for knowing your shit. You sound hardcore. You're probably better versed in Holmes's career than I am.

But still, around 1978 to 1982, Holmes was not getting hit nearly as much as in the later years. I remember that, as early as 1984, Holmes getting rocked against David Bey, which was stunning to see given that Larry had been almost untouchable previously. Holmes didn't look like his old self against Truth Williams in 1985. Both Spinks fights showed that Larry was very much on the downside. Ditto for 1988: I cannot imagine the younger, prime Holmes getting hit by Tyson's skull breaking bombs.

The point I'm making is that, by 1988, Holmes legs, speed, and reflexes had deteriorated. These qualities were the cornerstone of Holmes's defensive ability. Hence, in 1988 the real problem was that Holmes was getting hit by shots that, for most of his earlier career, he would have avoided. I can't picture the prime Holmes losing to Tyson by anything other than a decision (assuming Holmes would even lose to Tyson, prime for prime).

The punishment that Holmes took against Weaver -- which you describe -- was the exception to how the prime Holmes usually functioned on defense.

As for the story that Holmes may have been carried out on a stretcher against Wells, that's news to me. But again, even if it's true, that may not say anything about Holmes's durability at that age. Could be that Holmes's defense was flawed during his early amateur days. If given a wide open target, Wells could put someone's lights out, I'm told.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 06:03 PM   #39
king khan
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,371
vCash: 185
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldwin View Post
Who cares. **** off and stop hating on price man. Find something to do better with your time. Its sad to see a boxing fan( apparently) try to find something to disrepect price and the sport.

Your no fan man.

Honestly. Who the **** cares man. Really. Get a life and move on.

lol. .

but to be honest, I didn't think he was really "hating", or being disrespectful. . it just seemed like he was trying to see if anybody thinks he might have future problems taking a punch. . . When he steps up to the heavy hitters in the division.
king khan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #40
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by king khan View Post
lol. .

but to be honest, I didn't think he was really "hating", or being disrespectful. . it just seemed like he was trying to see if anybody thinks he might have future problems taking a punch. . . When he steps up to the heavy hitters in the division.
You said it, bro...you said it and you said it straight...shootin' from the hip...das what it's all about...
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 08:31 PM   #41
Zakman
ESB's Chinchecker
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Ivory Tower
Posts: 13,267
vCash: 588
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

I'm not particularly familiar with Price, or his amateur career, but I will tell you this. If a guy is fairly regularly visting the canvas wearing headgear, chances are his punch resistance without it won't be too good.

Time will tell, but if what people say is true, he DEFINITELY belongs on the suspect chin list.
Zakman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 07:32 AM   #42
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
I'm not particularly familiar with Price, or his amateur career, but I will tell you this. If a guy is fairly regularly visting the canvas wearing headgear, chances are his punch resistance without it won't be too good.

Time will tell, but if what people say is true, he DEFINITELY belongs on the suspect chin list.
Spoken by the Prof! 'Nuff said!

I agree with you though: Price's chin may be suspect. Time will tell.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 07:56 AM   #43
Momus
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

There's definitely enough evidence from his amateur career to create doubts about his punch resistance as a pro. I'm big on Price's offensive capabilities, but until he takes big shots as a pro there will always be concerns about his chin.

That isn't to say that he conclusively has a bad chin. Bowe and Lewis didn't look terribly durable as amateurs, but had more than enough to make a big impact in the pro ranks.

Even if Price has a glass jaw, he may have the attributes to overcome this liability in the same way Wlad has.
Momus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 08:18 AM   #44
simon850
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 2,509
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

We will find out how good he is when he fights a decent challenger.
simon850 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 11:34 AM   #45
icemax
Indian Red
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 13,617
vCash: 664
Default Re: How many times was Price KO'd as an amateur?

Its difficult to tell whats right and what isn't when it seems like an impossibility to actually get sight of his amateur record....its like a state secret.
icemax is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013