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Old 01-13-2008, 04:20 PM   #46
Sweet Pea
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
At first glimpse a fine effort young man. McCallum can't be ahead of Spinks and Holmes tho, Marciano too i'd say. I see Zarate not there too. Gomez might be close. Which Walcott?
Zarate and especially Gomez were right on the edge, I was debating Gomez with one of the last couple picks. And Barbados Joe is the Walcott.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:31 PM   #47
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
I dont remember anyone disputing him as heavyweight champion when he beat Buster Douglas.

Maybe the WBO, but they didn't even recognize Tyson and Douglas as heavyweight champions !
They chose Damiani and Duplooy to contest their title when Tyson was champion ! LOL
Well there you go, the WBO disputed it, thus he was not undisupted. But he was in most people who know about the sport eyes, the recognized Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Last edited by sweet_scientist; 12-20-2006 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Well, my reasoning for having Moore so low is actually one of very few things I've agreed with Brownpimp on, he lost to pretty much every top fighter he faced, despite having a great resume overall. I don't have a problem with guys having Moore higher, I just personally don't think he belongs in the top 10. I put Leonard over him because his top 4 wins are among the best ever, and he beat the best he faced, unlike Moore. Moore's overall quantity of opposition was obviously better given his number of fights though, so depends on what you prefer.

And again, I have no problem ranking Whitaker as low as about #17, but I choose not to.
I'm glad you see the light brother, archie moore was the de la hoya of his era, both men have outstanding resumes but they lost to basically the 5 best fighters they have ever faced.

Your top 50 is actually one of the best ive seen, i would only make a few changes. Like ranking monzon and carlos ortiz higher, jimmy wilde and bob fitszimmons lower.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:18 PM   #49
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Zarate and especially Gomez were right on the edge, I was debating Gomez with one of the last couple picks. And Barbados Joe is the Walcott.
Ok, Zarate is likely number 1 or 2 Bantam (an original weight category) in history with all things considered. He's definitely worthy of thought. His record is brilliant.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:21 PM   #50
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

Basilio IS a top 50 fighter imo. Beat Robinson, Willaims, Demarco, Saxon and Lenkins, Pretty hard fighters over all. Amazing resume, and a 2 divsion champ.

Feel Walker is in the top ten imo.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:29 PM   #51
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Ok, Zarate is likely number 1 or 2 Bantam (an original weight category) in history with all things considered. He's definitely worthy of thought. His record is brilliant.
His record is brilliant, his competition isn't as good. I would put Gomez over Zarate personally.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:41 PM   #52
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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His record is brilliant, his competition isn't as good. I would put Gomez over Zarate personally.
It's close, i'd fit both in my 50 i think. Good efforts so far tho and some good points have been made in here. I still can't have McCallum over the likes of Holmes, Rocky and Spinks tho.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:07 PM   #53
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

Sweet Pea, thanks for explaining why you rank Ray Leonard above Archie Moore.
Still, I'm not at all
convinced.

I dont buy that Moore lost to about every top fighter he faced. That he "lost to the best he faced" means little in comparison to Ray Leonard, who only took on the best for a brief window of time. I mean, Moore faced Marciano and Patterson within a 12 month period and fought something like 8 or 10 times in between ! And that's typical through his career for about 15 or 20 straight years !
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:14 PM   #54
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
It's close, i'd fit both in my 50 i think. Good efforts so far tho and some good points have been made in here. I still can't have McCallum over the likes of Holmes, Rocky and Spinks tho.
I think McCallum is very underrated. Both in a head to head, skill-wise sense, and resume wise. He beat a lot of top 154 and 160 pounders in his day. You may be right though about not ranking above Marciano, not sure about Spinks though. That's why this is a very rough copy.
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:21 PM   #55
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I think McCallum is very underrated. Both in a head to head, skill-wise sense, and resume wise. He beat a lot of top 154 and 160 pounders in his day. You may be right though about not ranking above Marciano, not sure about Spinks though. That's why this is a very rough copy.
Don't worry about Spinks the heavyweight, that title was the icing on his P4P greatness cake. He beat Braxton and Muhammad at 175, cleaned up and unified as well. The only man to be 175 and heavyweight world champ. McCallum, tho unlucky not to get a chance, never beat the biggest names of his time. I can understand him making the list, he has a great second tier resume, possibly my point is i'd have Spinks higher than he is rather than rant on McCallum. McCallum is a fine fighter of course.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:29 PM   #56
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Very open to suggesstions. As said, a very rough copy, not happy with it yet, at all.

1. Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Roberto Duran
8. Ray Leonard
9. Barney Ross
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Benny Leonard
12. Willie Pep
13. Joe Louis
14. Joe Walcott
15. Mickey Walker
16. Bob Fitzsimmons
17. Joe Gans
18. Archie Moore
19. Carlos Monzon
20. Marvin Hagler
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Sandy Saddler
24. Gene Tunney’
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Jimmy Wilde
27. Emile Griffith
28. Roy Jones Jr.
29. Eder Jofre
30. Evander Holyfield
31. Tommy Hearns
32. Jose Napoles
33. Lennox Lewis
34. Carlos Ortiz
35. Kid Gavilan
36. Ike Williams
37. Floyd Mayweather
38. Bernard Hopkins
39. Charley Burley
40. Stanley Ketchell
41. Oscar De La Hoya
42. Mike McCallum
43. Salvador Sanchez
44. Beau Jack
45. Rocky Marciano
46. Michael Spinks
47. Larry Holmes
48. Carmen Basilio
49. Billy Conn
50. Ricardo Lopez
Holyfield above Hearns and Holmes? And Spinks above Holmes? All in all its decent.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:31 PM   #57
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
Holyfield above Hearns and Holmes? And Spinks above Holmes? All in all its decent.
Yes, Holyfield above both, certainly. Resume better than Hearns for sure. Spinks beat Holmes at least once, after moving up from dominating LHW, so P4P, I have him slightly ahead.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:49 PM   #58
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

Holyfield is too inconsistant for me to rate him above those people. The way I look at it, 4 time champion, that means you would have had to have lost the title 4 times.
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:52 PM   #59
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
Holyfield is too inconsistant for me to rate him above those people. The way I look at it, 4 time champion, that means you would have had to have lost the title 4 times.
That's just at Heavyweight. At Heavyweight I rank Holmes above him easily. But Holyfield was the clear cut best CW of all time prior to moving up to HW and making an arguable case as a top 10 HW of all time. Therefore, P4P he ranks above Holmes.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:10 AM   #60
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Default Re: My very rough copy of the Top 50 Boxers of All Time

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
That's just at Heavyweight. At Heavyweight I rank Holmes above him easily. But Holyfield was the clear cut best CW of all time prior to moving up to HW and making an arguable case as a top 10 HW of all time. Therefore, P4P he ranks above Holmes.
Yeah but whats ur reason for ranking bob fitszimmons and jimmy wilde so high though. They are more based on praise, than actual resume. Fitzsimmons may have been a 3 division champ, but its not like he beat the atgs. Wilde was pretty padded up too. Carlos Ortiz accomplished more than both imo.

Locce, loi, elorde, ramos, laguna and joe brown, these are all the men the guy beat. I personally rank him in my top 20. Crushes the resume of a jimmy wilde or fitsmimonns for that matter.
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