Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Other > MMA Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-20-2012, 04:03 PM   #1
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

how it would be ??
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-20-2012, 04:13 PM   #2
thewinfella
The Golden Boy
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 7,481
vCash: 75
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

I think a young Frank Shamrock in todays game , would be a threat to everybody in the world @185 without a shadow of a doubt , i mean that cannot be disputed , IMO he invented the term " well rounded " , he was drilling and using techniques back then that are drilled daily right now in top MMA establishments all over the world

With the level of training available and the exposure MMA has , Frank would be a major force @185

If by magic a prime Shamrock is plonked into todays game against the current crop , and your talking the Shamrock that fought Tito suddenly pops up opposite Vitor or Anderson Silva ??? ..................................... logic would say his skill set would not be up to scratch
thewinfella is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:22 PM   #3
Stoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

I think athletically, he was strong, quick and durable enough to fit in quite well in today's division

I think guys with quick hands, ie Anderson and Vitor, who both have good defensive jits, would beat him.

And catch-wrestling leaves you vulnerable to top heavy gnp'ers, and only Munoz & Cahel springs to mind there and I think Frank could beat them standing and neutralise him on the mat buy forcing both, especially Chael, to defend sub attempts from the bottom

Is it too much of a stretch to say potentially top 5?
Stoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 04:57 PM   #4
Matt Ldn
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NSW via Leeds/London
Posts: 1,940
vCash: 1885
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Why does catch wrestling leave you vulnerable to top heavy gnpers? I also imagine Chaels lack of power would have been a big disadvantage in that fight
Matt Ldn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 05:26 PM   #5
Stoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Well generally speaking catch guys dont have the strongest guard in the world as their 1st instinct is too 'hook' (i.e quick submission) their opponents rather than work a guard methodically like an experienced BJJ guy, leaving them vulnerable to guys posturing up and punching them or leaving them out of position if they dont lock in a submission. A good example would be Josh v Cormier last night (Josh tried to hook the legs and arms, allowing Cormier to posture up and hit him rather than stifle his positions with his guard). Now Josh has good BJJ, better than Frank's, but he is not really known for his guard. So basically what Im saying is that the catch style will sacrifice a relatively safe position for a quick submission, and they dont practice guard as well as a Jits specialist. Sakuraba, Josh and Ken Shamrock have all sustained beatings whilst in guard, but they've also rolled out for numerous 'hook' style submissions, usually an arm/leg lock or a blood choke

And Frank's guard was pretty poor, as seen in the Tito, Bas and even Renzo fights. So top heavy wrestlers pinning him down and punching him will always be a weakness using catch wrestling off your back

Now that's just my understanding of it, and anyone is free to correct me if Im wrong, but I think Im pretty close in my interpretation
Stoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 05:38 PM   #6
HeGlassedMe
ufc is the new pet rock
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Gaia
Posts: 1,210
vCash: 109
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Beats them all.
HeGlassedMe is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 05:55 PM   #7
Matt Ldn
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NSW via Leeds/London
Posts: 1,940
vCash: 1885
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
Well generally speaking catch guys dont have the strongest guard in the world as their 1st instinct is too 'hook' (i.e quick submission) their opponents rather than work a guard methodically like an experienced BJJ guy, leaving them vulnerable to guys posturing up and punching them or leaving them out of position if they dont lock in a submission. A good example would be Josh v Cormier last night (Josh tried to hook the legs and arms, allowing Cormier to posture up and hit him rather than stifle his positions with his guard). Now Josh has good BJJ, better than Frank's, but he is not really known for his guard. So basically what Im saying is that the catch style will sacrifice a relatively safe position for a quick submission, and they dont practice guard as well as a Jits specialist. Sakuraba, Josh and Ken Shamrock have all sustained beatings whilst in guard, but they've also rolled out for numerous 'hook' style submissions, usually an arm/leg lock or a blood choke

And Frank's guard was pretty poor, as seen in the Tito, Bas and even Renzo fights. So top heavy wrestlers pinning him down and punching him will always be a weakness using catch wrestling off your back

Now that's just my understanding of it, and anyone is free to correct me if Im wrong, but I think Im pretty close in my interpretation
cheers mate nice little technical analysis there. I was reading up about catch wrestling before found it really interesting
Matt Ldn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 06:18 PM   #8
rusty nails
Tszyu for PM!!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: dunno..where am i???
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

frank would be a welterweight today.
rusty nails is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 06:21 PM   #9
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty nails View Post
frank would be a welterweight today.
Do you think he would be the best opponent for GSP if he was a ww today ? How he would be against the WWs of the current UFC ?
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 07:44 PM   #10
thewinfella
The Golden Boy
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 7,481
vCash: 75
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo View Post
I think athletically, he was strong, quick and durable enough to fit in quite well in today's division

I think guys with quick hands, ie Anderson and Vitor, who both have good defensive jits, would beat him.

And catch-wrestling leaves you vulnerable to top heavy gnp'ers, and only Munoz & Cahel springs to mind there and I think Frank could beat them standing and neutralise him on the mat buy forcing both, especially Chael, to defend sub attempts from the bottom

Is it too much of a stretch to say potentially top 5?
Yes

His skills in todays game he would be just too limited IMO , remember these guys who specialise in certain area's are training all the other discilplines on a daily , weekly basis now as well , it would be too much to ask IMO

Excellent analysis on CW and JJ there BTW !!

Plus ..................... with the modern more strategic style of fighter , the guard is an essential part of a fighters arsenal and CW looks to have been and gone as an effective discipline at the top end of the sport
thewinfella is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 08:37 PM   #11
rusty nails
Tszyu for PM!!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: dunno..where am i???
Posts: 3,157
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
Do you think he would be the best opponent for GSP if he was a ww today ? How he would be against the WWs of the current UFC ?

i think he beats most of them and would give gsp a hard time but id still pick gsp.
rusty nails is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 06:57 AM   #12
Stoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewinfella View Post
Yes

His skills in todays game he would be just too limited IMO , remember these guys who specialise in certain area's are training all the other discilplines on a daily , weekly basis now as well , it would be too much to ask IMO

Excellent analysis on CW and JJ there BTW !!

Plus ..................... with the modern more strategic style of fighter , the guard is an essential part of a fighters arsenal and CW looks to have been and gone as an effective discipline at the top end of the sport
We are talking about the middleweight division here. Probably the most one dimensional division in the sport. I dont think Frank's stand up was awful either, but certainly no match for the Belfots & Anderson's. Id put Bisping in there as well as he's developed into one of the toughest guys to keep down in the sport.

But more than capable of using it with his ground game and striking to outclass some of these fighters, who are, arguably, more one dimensional than Shammy was back in the day.

Win or lose, I think Frank presents a significant problem for each of these guys, although out of this list I would probably make Yushin and Munoz slight favourites

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by Stoo; 05-21-2012 at 07:09 AM.
Stoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 07:02 AM   #13
Stoo
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Ldn View Post
cheers mate nice little technical analysis there. I was reading up about catch wrestling before found it really interesting
This history and execution of catch in MMA is fascinating.

here's a good example of a hook finish, although is was a pure grappling competition. You can see form here how Frank would be vulnerable to strikes in an MMA fight if he didnt pull out the sub though


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6eNTcsA1e4[/ame]
Stoo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #14
greathamza
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: sweden
Posts: 5,329
vCash: 117
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

He always had a good gameplan and followed it some solid standup and ground game dont think it would be to much of a stretch to say he would be top 5
greathamza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2012, 10:00 AM   #15
afterglow
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 692
vCash: 500
Default Re: Prime Frank Shamrock in the current UFC MW division

He really looked full of roids back then.
afterglow is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Other > MMA Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013