Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-22-2012, 12:24 PM   #61
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,046
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
I go along with that. The shit that Jack and other black fighters had to take in those days was a bloody disgrace.

Courage I would certainly agree with. I think, however, we need to be careful here about the definition of "integrity" and "moral courage" when applied to a Jack Johnson. He did what he did for himself and himself only. I don't see him fitting this description.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-22-2012, 12:48 PM   #62
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,766
vCash: 500
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
People died in concentration camps because they disobeyed laws they abhorred , were they wrong?
Who in the USA [and that is the subject of this thread] was put in and died in a concentration camp Mc ? You darn well know it was the evil Hitler Regime that did this horrendous deed...How can you compare MILLIONS of Americans who SERVED their country as dupes of an evil society, whilst
others who pick and choose when and IF they want to serve, as men of
"integrity" ? I, Mc, and my buddy's were and are every bit as "noble" as you
though we went in the service willingly,even though we hated to disrupt our lives....Yes Mc , I'm every bit as moral as you knowing that as part of a vast country, we have to serve or bear the consequences...
And once again don't compare USA citizens serving their country with the
Nazi regime who put people in ovens..
P.S. What would have happened to your country under attack by the Nazi's
if the American boys in WORLD WAR 2, decided not to heed the draft laws
on grounds that they did not believe to serve 3000 miles away, by your pick and choose your war actions ...? What would have happened then if people thought like you and others? And yes those days there were isolationists in America who were against getting involved in a war 3000 miles away, but
they for the vast part obeyed the draft laws and served, and THANK GOD they did McVey...Cheers...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:03 PM   #63
lora
Fighting Zapata
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,555
vCash: 500
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Nobody is arguing against the righteousness of fighting in world war 2.
lora is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:08 PM   #64
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,363
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Who in the USA [and that is the subject of this thread] was put in and died in a concentration camp Mc ? You darn well know it was the evil Hitler Regime that did this horrendous deed...How can you compare MILLIONS of Americans who SERVED their country as dupes of an evil society, whilst
others who pick and choose when and IF they want to serve, as men of
"integrity" ? I, Mc, and my buddy's were and are every bit as "noble" as you
though we went in the service willingly,even though we hated to disrupt our lives....Yes Mc , I'm every bit as moral as you knowing that as part of a vast country, we have to serve or bear the consequences...
And once again don't compare USA citizens serving their country with the
Nazi regime who put people in ovens..
P.S. What would have happened to your country under attack by the Nazi's
if the American boys in WORLD WAR 2, decided not to heed the draft laws
on grounds that they did not believe to serve 3000 miles away, by your pick and choose your war actions ...? What would have happened then if people thought like you and others? And yes those days there were isolationists in America who were against getting involved in a war 3000 miles away, but
they for the vast part obeyed the draft laws and served, and THANK GOD they did McVey...Cheers...
I dont think the USA is the subject of the thread at all really, except that you have chosen to make it so. My country went into two world wars to defend the sovereignity of another country Belgium in WW1,Poland inWW2. Your country did not. You were forced into WW1 by the sinking of shippage . In WW2, you were attacked, and therefore presented with a fait accompli ,you had no choice but to enter the war, which by the way , we had been fighting for 2 years before you appeared. The USA did not enter the war to protect democracy , or to rescue the UK ,[ it had happily been supplying both sides in both wars, prior to getting involved.] It entered the war because it was attacked, and to protect its own interests. I believe that WW2 was a just war, and I would have served in it, just my opinion. . With the benefit of hindsight ,we can see that WW1 has less to recommend it, as far as participating goes.I hope I might have been brave enough to be a conscientious objector during that conflict.

As to what would have happened to the Allies if the US had not entered WW2 ?
I think we would have been defeated. Germany would have beaten Russia, then eventually ,with Japan, turned its attention on the States.
What would have happened to the US then? Fighting Germany , and the rest of the Axis powers alone?
Your martial track record since then is not that special is it? Korea, and Viet Nam were far from victories for you were they?



By the way it was Lew Ayres experience making the classic," All Quiet On The Western Front," that convinced him not to bear arms in WW2


Also ,apropos of nothing particular "Fighting Marine", Gene Tunney never saw action, he arrived in France after the grim stuff was all over.


I have never questioned your morals ,or principles Burt, I just happen to disagree with you on this one.

N.B .nothing remotely "noble about me.

Peace Brother.

Last edited by mcvey; 05-22-2012 at 03:10 PM.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:17 PM   #65
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Wars are rarely if ever really declared for noble causes.

Let's face it, Britain and France twice fought Germany because they didn't want Germany building an empire and dominating the world.
But Britain and France didn't have any problem with big empire and world domination in principle, as history shows.


Having said that, I'd have enjoyed bashing the evil Hun as much as the next man !
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:24 PM   #66
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,363
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Wars are rarely if ever really declared for noble causes.

Let's face it, Britain and France twice fought Germany because they didn't want Germany building an empire and dominating the world.
But Britain and France didn't have any problem with big empire and world domination in principle, as history shows.


Having said that, I'd have enjoyed bashing the evil Hun as much as the next man !

Many people would say that comparing our Empire to that of Nazi Germany's reflects favourably on ours,and I would be one of them.

As far as history is concerned ,it is France, not Germany that has always been our traditional foe.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:29 PM   #67
afterglow
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 692
vCash: 500
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
This may be a controversial statement, but my pick is.


JACK JOHNSON
Jack Johnson was a ****in idiot. Not brave.


Also, look up why his first wife killed herself, and I dare you to come back and call him brave.
afterglow is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:36 PM   #68
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 9,299
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
That's very true, just as in Nazi occupied Poland, a notoriously antiSemetic country, there were many courageous and good Poles who risked their lives as well as their familiy's lives by hiding Jews from the Nazis.
very true, and the poles had to worry about Stalin ...this is not mention much but true
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:39 PM   #69
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Many people would say that comparing our Empire to that of Nazi Germany's reflects favourably on ours,and I would be one of them.
I'd agree with that too. But that's hardly why Britain and France declared war on Germany - twice.
Any form of German nationalism and expansionism would have been opposed in the same way by Imperialist Britain and France. It was 'convenient' that the Nazis truly were a pack of nasty bastards.

Quote:
As far as history is concerned ,it is France, not Germany that has always been our traditional foe
Yes, but things change. When Germany was unified in the mid-late-19th century, it became the most pressing rival to both Britain and France, and one that was rising up on the world stage too.


Not that this has anything much to do with the thread. I'm just saying, the men who declare the wars are motivated by causes that are usually far from noble.
That's no knock on the men who bravely fight in them - on all sides.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 01:58 PM   #70
burt bienstock
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,766
vCash: 500
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
I dont think the USA is the subject of the thread at all really, except that you have chosen to make it so. My country went into two world wars to defend the sovereignity of another country Belgium in WW1,Poland inWW2. Your country did not. You were forced into WW1 by the sinking of shippage . In WW2, you were attacked, and therefore presented with a fait accompli ,you had no choice but to enter the war, which by the way , we had been fighting for 2 years before you appeared. The USA did not enter the war to protect democracy , or to rescue the UK ,[ it had happily been supplying both sides in both wars, prior to getting involved.] It entered the war because it was attacked, and to protect its own interests. I believe that WW2 was a just war, and I would have served in it, just my opinion. . With the benefit of hindsight ,we can see that WW1 has less to recommend it, as far as participating goes.I hope I might have been brave enough to be a conscientious objector during that conflict.

As to what would have happened to the Allies if the US had not entered WW2 ?
I think we would have been defeated. Germany would have beaten Russia, then eventually ,with Japan, turned its attention on the States.
What would have happened to the US then? Fighting Germany , and the rest of the Axis powers alone?
Your martial track record since then is not that special is it? Korea, and Viet Nam were far from victories for you were they?



By the way it was Lew Ayres experience making the classic," All Quiet On The Western Front," that convinced him not to bear arms in WW2


Also ,apropos of nothing particular "Fighting Marine", Gene Tunney never saw action, he arrived in France after the grim stuff was all over.


I have never questioned you morals ,or principles Burt, I just happen to disagree with you on this one.

N.B .nothing remotely "noble about me.

Peace Brother.
Peace and Lady Ga Ga to you Mc. But this darn thread started when some poster said that Clay/Ali refusing to go in to the USA armed forces, was an act of "integrity", No more, No less, Mc. I RESPONDED to this poster's assertion in a responsible way and others joined into the fray and expanded into political and philosophical realms, far far from the original thread...Take care and God Save the Queen...
burt bienstock is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 02:29 PM   #71
Vantage_West
ヒップホッププロデューサー
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 黒人文化の恋人のサンプリ
Posts: 10,024
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

duran deserves a mention
Vantage_West is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 02:31 PM   #72
devon
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,108
vCash: 75
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantage_West View Post
duran deserves a mention
Why?
devon is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 02:51 PM   #73
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,155
vCash: 75
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantage_West View Post
duran deserves a mention
Quote:
Originally Posted by devon View Post
Why?
It's a kodak moment
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 02:54 PM   #74
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,155
vCash: 75
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Peace and Lady Ga Ga to you Mc. But this darn thread started when some poster said that Clay/Ali refusing to go in to the USA armed forces, was an act of "integrity", No more, No less, Mc. I RESPONDED to this poster's assertion in a responsible way and others joined into the fray and expanded into political and philosophical realms, far far from the original thread...Take care and God Save the Queen...
i'll say this much, Ali fought more vietcong than Dempsey fought blacks
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2012, 02:59 PM   #75
luke
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,180
vCash: 500
Default Re: Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courag

Quote:
Originally Posted by devon View Post
Did you just call islam a hate group
Also Ali didn't join the army because of his religious beliefs. Also his family already had enough money. The fact is Ali stood up for something he believed in if that isn't integrity then i don't know what is.

islam was a hate group back then, farakhan has admited many times he had a hand in malcolm X assasination, late 60s to mid to late 70s ali openly said he doesnt like white people, but then in the early 80s he left the nation of islam to become a soni muslim i belive?
luke is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013