Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-13-2008, 12:09 PM   #16
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
The great Jimmy Cannon called Patterson the worst heavyweight champ of all time whether rightly or wrongly.
On what basis do you attribute "greatness" to Jimmy Cannon ?
 Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-13-2008, 12:13 PM   #17
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
On what basis do you attribute "greatness" to Jimmy Cannon ?
You don't consider him a great writer?
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 12:16 PM   #18
Holmes' Jab
Master Jabber
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,551
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

There have definitely been worse Heavyweight Champs than Patterson. Leon Spinks for starters, Frank Bruno as well- not to mention some of the alpha belt holders down the years (Tucker etc).
Holmes' Jab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 12:21 PM   #19
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
You don't consider him a great writer?
Well, people say he is, so he must be.

"A sports expert is the guy who writes the best alibis for being wrong" - Jimmy Cannon

I wonder whether he ever wrote an alibi for what he said about Patterson, or for what he said about Ali, for that matter ?

As a judge of fighters, I'd say Cannon was far from "great", but as a writer, yeah, why not.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 12:29 PM   #20
abraq
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: City - Guwahati, State - Assam, Country - India.
Posts: 687
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Patterson was overall the more consistent fighter of the two, but given that we're talking about both on their respective best nights: Tokyo version Douglas would stop Patterson late,

I say all this despite being a Patterson fan and generally being of the opinion he doesn't get as much praise as he should regarding his career achivements. I've got to be honest here, however and say that a peak "Buster" has too much size and power for Floyd to handle, as well as a fine jab and good boxing ability.

Douglas TKO11.
Just about my assessment of this matchup.

Patterson has the better record and beat more name opponents. But Douglas on the night he beat Tyson achieved a level which would have been too much for Patterson. I say this notwithstanding my admiration for Floyd Patterson - both as a man and a fighter.
abraq is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 12:56 PM   #21
BUDW
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,041
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Floyd boxes Buster to a ud in 15
BUDW is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:06 PM   #22
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

I don't think most people here realise how grueling hard it is to box someone who has 50 pounds on you but retains quick footwork, timing, a hard jab and great skills otherwise. Floyd has only beaten two guys (barely) over 200 pounds; Bonavena and Chuvalo were not even close to as talented or as big as Douglas.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:32 PM   #23
Woddy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

I would have to go with James Douglas in this matchup, even though I'm a huge Patterson fan. Most posters have already pointed out some of the same reasons that I have for picking Buster. He was sifnificantly larger than Patterson, with a fair amount of speed, power, footwork, and overall boxing ability to compliment it. Sure, he showed up to have some fairly lousy persformances in his career, but he well made up for it by beating some big named fighters between 1987-1990. His win over Tyson was better than anything that Patterson had ever done, regardless of the fact that Tyson was giving the worst performance of his career. He also had wins over men like Page, Berbick, Cobb, Simpson, and McCall. Not a bad resume. I just can't see Patterson overcoming him at 180Lbs. Douglas would be jabing and uperrcutting away at Floyd all night. This fight gets stopped somewhere between rounds 6-9.

***On a side note, someone mentioned that a sporstwriter called Floyd patterson the worst heavyweight champion in history. I do not agree with this claim. There were surely other champions both lineal and paper, who I'd rate Floyd well above. Jess Willard, Primo Carnera, James Braddock, Leon Spinks, and a number of alpha champions all come to mind.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:42 PM   #24
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I don't think most people here realise how grueling hard it is to box someone who has 50 pounds on you but retains quick footwork, timing, a hard jab and great skills otherwise. Floyd has only beaten two guys (barely) over 200 pounds; Bonavena and Chuvalo were not even close to as talented or as big as Douglas.
Patterson beat more than 2 guys who weighed over 200 pounds.

Chuvalo and Bonavena may not have been as tall as Douglas but they were probably just as strong, stronger, and were LEAN at their fighting weight. They had talent, they just weren't as orthodox as Douglas.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:50 PM   #25
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woddy
He also had wins over men like Page, Berbick, Cobb, Simpson, and McCall. Not a bad resume.
Who is Simpson ?
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:53 PM   #26
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Patterson beat more than 2 guys who weighed over 200 pounds.

Chuvalo and Bonavena may not have been as tall as Douglas but they were probably just as strong, stronger, and were LEAN at their fighting weight. They had talent, they just weren't as orthodox as Douglas.
Sorry but Chuvalo and Bonavena didn't have half Douglas' talent. Douglas moves ten times more fluidily despite having a natural weight that is 30 pounds heavier than those. They have (much) better chins and that's about it. They just don't compare.

Oh, and thirty pounds of natural additional weight does make a difference, especially if you're only 180lbs yourself. It's huge. Douglas was lean enough to make his way out of most of Tyson's punches, which were still very quick ones. That's all i need to know.


p.s. he didn't exactly have an easy time with the former two either, despite ranking a lot higher than them historically.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:59 PM   #27
Woddy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Who is Simpson ?
An undefeated prospect who was 17-0-0-14, and was Ko'd by Douglas in a single round, as part of the title elimination tourney. If you ask me, it was a better win than Patterson defending his championship against Pete Rademacher, who was only making his debut.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 02:10 PM   #28
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woddy
An undefeated prospect who was 17-0-0-14, and was Ko'd by Douglas in a single round, as part of the title elimination tourney. If you ask me, it was a better win than Patterson defending his championship against Pete Rademacher, who was only making his debut.
Did you see the fight ?
What Simpson any good ?
Which title elimination tourney was this ?
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 02:47 PM   #29
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Sorry but Chuvalo and Bonavena didn't have half Douglas' talent. Douglas moves ten times more fluidily despite having a natural weight that is 30 pounds heavier than those. They have (much) better chins and that's about it. They just don't compare.

Oh, and thirty pounds of natural additional weight does make a difference, especially if you're only 180lbs yourself. It's huge. Douglas was lean enough to make his way out of most of Tyson's punches, which were still very quick ones. That's all i need to know.


p.s. he didn't exactly have an easy time with the former two either, despite ranking a lot higher than them historically.

Moving fluidly is overrated.
Looking slick and cool and relaxed and flashy does not automatically make a fighter twice as good as the awkward herky-jerky granite-headed steamroller who you cant hit twice without getting an elbow in your mouth.

Ali was the most graceful fluid heavyweight in the world, and had a nightmare with Bonavena.

Discussions about "talent" are meaningless. Talent seems to be an intangible quality when viewing top fighters and i find all this talk of talent too vague.

I mean, when someone says Tyson had a load of talent because he had stupid power and speed and physique at age 12 I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, but when people look at two 30 year old professional fighters who have been training and fighting for 15-20 years and talk about "talent" I dont get it. Perhaps raw speed and chin can be assessed as being rooted in god-given talent, but the rest is just a product of training and the ability to perform and demonstrate what you have trained to do, in whatever style works.

As for weight, in the fights we're discussing Douglas was 231, Chuvalo was 208, Bonavena was 206, and Patterson was 192-196.

Yes, Douglas was significantly bigger than Patterson.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 03:28 PM   #30
Woddy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Did you see the fight ?
What Simpson any good ?
Which title elimination tourney was this ?
1. No I didn't.

2. He might have been.

3. The 1985, ESPN elimination tourney which soon led to the IBF elimination tournament in which Douglas was an IBF challenger.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013