Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-13-2008, 06:49 PM   #1
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Help with my #5 Heavyweight

So far i have Ali, Louis, Lewis and Holmes. The names i need looked at for 5 are Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Holyfield, Marciano and Tyson.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-13-2008, 07:03 PM   #2
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,232
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
So far i have Ali, Louis, Lewis and Holmes. The names i need looked at for 5 are Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Holyfield, Marciano and Tyson.
I think that if we accept your 1-4 then the clear cut candidate for the No5 slot would be Jack Johnson or Jack Dempsey.

So none of the above.
janitor is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:08 PM   #3
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
I think that if we accept your 1-4 then the clear cut candidate for the No5 slot would be Jack Johnson or Jack Dempsey.

So none of the above.
Thanks for the help LOL

Next.............

Last edited by TheModel; 12-20-2006 at 01:59 PM.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:13 PM   #4
Sonny's jab
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Of those you're considering, JT, I'd probably rate Marciano highest.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:15 PM   #5
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Of those you're considering, JT, I'd probably rate Marciano highest.
Thanks Sonny, he's definitely being considered heavily. He was never defeated, so he's hard to argue against. The others are patchy, but Marciano has no lows really. He's the definite favourite at the moment in my mind.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:24 PM   #6
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Of those you're considering, JT, I'd probably rate Marciano highest.
Seconded. Can't go wrong with Marciano. I actually have Ali, Louis, Lewis, Marciano and Holmes in my own top5.

Marciano has a great record: knocked out every single ranked contender he faced (even if you think his opposition is weak, which other champ has ever done that?), he defended the title against the #1 contender 5 times and once against the #2 contender. Not that much longetivity but no else dominated like him with the exception of Tyson in the late 80's. He is a bit smallish and so is his opposition, but i think greatness (i.e. relatively to his own era) is an important aspect. Also consider that master boxers like Charles, Walcott, Moore and LaStarze should've given him stylistic problems but he stood up to the challenge and came out on top every time.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:29 PM   #7
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

If both of you agree on this one Marciano will be damn hard to go past. Thanks for the expansion.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:37 PM   #8
Sweet Pea
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: I never sleep, cuz sleep is the cousin of death
Posts: 13,604
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
So far i have Ali, Louis, Lewis and Holmes. The names i need looked at for 5 are Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Holyfield, Marciano and Tyson.
Well, that is my exact top 4. My #5 is between Rock and Foreman. It changes a lot.
Sweet Pea is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:48 PM   #9
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,269
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

I'd look closely at Foreman.

He vanquished many serious guys -Frazier, Norton, Peralta, Chuvalo, Lyle, although he had the misfortune of having a forecasted long reign interrupted by Ali.

Head-to-head, he presents a serious threat. Both Foremans.

His comeback had the makings of a fraud until he did the unthinkable. You have an accomplishment that I think is the greatest single achievement of any HW ever -the reclamation of the title -by KO- 20 years after losing it, and that against an undefeated southpaw in his physical prime.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:02 PM   #10
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
I'd look closely at Foreman.

He vanquished many serious guys -Frazier, Norton, Peralta, Chuvalo, Lyle, although he had the misfortune of having a forecasted long reign interrupted by Ali.

Head-to-head, he presents a serious threat. Both Foremans.

His comeback had the makings of a fraud until he did the unthinkable. You have an accomplishment that I think is the greatest single achievement of any HW ever -the reclamation of the title -by KO- 20 years after losing it, and that against an undefeated southpaw in his physical prime.
Thanks mate. Even if George doesn't make the cut at 5 comments like yours help me greatly for what looks to be a very hard fought position at #6. 5 - 10 are really open with 6 - 10 looking anybodies.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:23 PM   #11
brooklyn1550
Roberto Duran
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,024
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

I have the exact same top four. At number five, I have Rocky Marciano.
brooklyn1550 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:27 PM   #12
anon1
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 241
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
So far i have Ali, Louis, Lewis and Holmes. The names i need looked at for 5 are Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Holyfield, Marciano and Tyson.
1. ali
2. louis
3. liston
4. holmes
5. foreman

liston would have beaten every fighter except ali & louis. he'd have beaten foreman & louis too.

edit: i like that triangle shape of my list!
anon1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:30 PM   #13
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1
1. ali
2. louis
3. liston
4. holmes
5. foreman

liston would have beaten every fighter except ali & louis. he'd have beaten foreman & louis too.

edit: i like that triangle shape of my list!
Fair enough, i am listing with both resume and head to head ability taken into account. Resume is probably taken into account a little more than head to head if anything.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:46 PM   #14
anon1
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 241
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Fair enough, i am listing with both resume and head to head ability taken into account. Resume is probably taken into account a little more than head to head if anything.

yes both are important but resume is more influenced by politics of boxing. everyone knows that liston was ducked by floyd so he was the uncrowned king who beat a good list of contenders. what would liston's resume look like if he didn't have muhammad ali to derail him? what liston was around in 1990s to fight 1999 holy and 2002 tyson. what if lewis was in 1960s facing guys like ali, foreman, and liston himself? true, liston doesn't officially have as many "title" defenses - but he beat a string of very good contenders, had 1 loss to marty marshal in a competitive & understanable circumstance (it was his 8th fight) and then to ali and the last one was when he was 72 years old. people will rate lewis higher than liston but had the times switched - liston would have done just as well if not better. for these circumstantial reasons i weigh head to head very heavily, and those opinions MUST be at least "backed up" by achievments in the ring - which they are.
anon1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:50 PM   #15
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help with my #5 Heavyweight

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
I have the exact same top four. At number five, I have Rocky Marciano.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013