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Old 01-13-2008, 08:33 PM   #1
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Default Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

... or among a list of the all-time heavyweight champions ?



Seriously.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

I wouldnt hes average.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

top 50
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

I'm guessing that this is some sort of survey to discredit Vitali Klitschko. A week ago, Sonny's jabberouski had a two day long argument with Mendoza on the thread which I started entitled " how would Vitali Klitscko do against some of the all time greats?"

Sonny validly pointed out that Hasim Rahman had a better resume because he beat a younger version of Corrie Sanders than Vitali did along with Lennox Lewis, whom Klitschko couldn't beat at all. I think the general gist of this game is, you rate Rahman ( presumably low ) and Sonny tallies up your ratings and rates Vitali even lower. I think I get it.

The problem here, is that no one ever rated Vitali Klitscko highly from a legacy perspective. My only point with that other thread, was to make a case for him being a tough customer on a head to head basis with some ( not all ) of the legendary great fighters of the past.

With all the above said, I would rate Rahman rather low. Sure he had some very good wins like Sanders, Lewis, and a few others who were OK, but he also had some bad losses, and failed to beat Maskaev on two occasions. Vitali would have to be rated a bit higher having a significantly better record without ever having been genuinely dominated.

Last edited by mr. magoo; 01-13-2008 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Top 100 (for all time heavyweights)
Near the bottom for heavyweight champions/title holders
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Higher than Vitali because of his achievements, but not very high anyway.
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Is this thread for real?
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Probably above Tony Tucker for a start, but below Bepi Ros.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Among the heavyweight champions, I'd say he's definitely on his way to finishing inside the bottom 10. Out of all heavyweights in history, I doubt he'll make the top 50, or even top 75.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

I don't..............
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I'm guessing that this is some sort of survey to discredit Vitali Klitschko. A week ago, Sonny's jabberouski had a two day long argument with Mendoza on the thread which I started entitled " how would Vitali Klitscko do against some of the all time greats?"

Sonny validly pointed out that Hasim Rahman had a better resume because he beat a younger version of Corrie Sanders than Vitali did along with Lennox Lewis, whom Klitschko couldn't beat at all. I think the general gist of this game is, you rate Rahman ( presumably low ) and Sonny tallies up your ratings and rates Vitali even lower. I think I get it.

The problem here, is that no one ever rated Vitali Klitscko highly from a legacy perspective. My only point with that other thread, was to make a case for him being a tough customer on a head to head basis with some ( not all ) of the legendary great fighters of the past.

With all the above said, I would rate Rahman rather low. Sure he had some very good wins like Sanders, Lewis, and a few others who were OK, but he also had some bad losses, and failed to beat Maskaev on two occasions. Vitali would have to be rated a bit higher having a significantly better record without ever having been genuinely dominated.
This thread is about Hasim Rahman.

I really dont have any intention of re-hashing the discussion from your thread last week - I've posted a considerable amount on other most interesting topics since then - and that other fighter you mention had not even entered my mind as I created this thread. I thought we thrashed that conversation out ad naseum as it was.

You obviously rate Hasim Rahman so low that in your mind he's not even worthy of a thread ASKING WHERE you rate him (unless that thread has a hidden agenda !) !

Nice slant though. Your input is always appreciated, Magoo.
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
Among the heavyweight champions, I'd say he's definitely on his way to finishing inside the bottom 10. Out of all heavyweights in history, I doubt he'll make the top 50, or even top 75.
I agree, he probably wouldn't make the top 75, even with the amount of "not-so-great" fighters you would have to include if you were to compile such a list.

That's why I asked about where he'd rank among the champions. If we are to include only undisputed, linear or generally recognized champs, there cant be much more than 30-35 of them.
Which ones would I put Rahman above ?

Shannon Briggs was linear. Rahman MIGHT place above him.

Jimmy Braddock perhaps, Leon Spinks perhaps.
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:24 AM   #13
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
Among the heavyweight champions, I'd say he's definitely on his way to finishing inside the bottom 10. Out of all heavyweights in history, I doubt he'll make the top 50, or even top 75.
I lean toward the very bottom of the top 50.

A quick case for Rhaman who is now 45-6-2. 45-6-2 is a very good ring record.

1 ) He owns a knockout win over Lewis. Lewis is seen as a top 15 all time great by just about everyone and a top 10 all time great by most. Even a biased old timer like Sugar, who has Lewis at 12 or 13 hints he might move up.

2 ) He owns a knock out win over Corrie Sanders, who for arguments sake is a top 100 heavyweight. Rhaman showed heart and got off the floor to win.

3 ) Rhaman was robbed in a draw vs Tua, who for argument's sake is a top 50 all time heavyweight. Rhaman was the better. The decsion should have been his.

4 ) Rahman was robbed in a draw vs James Toney. Rhaman was the better. The decsion should have been his.

5 ) His TKO loss to Tua is controversial, as Tua landed a hard hook about 2 seconds after the bell, and Rhaman could not recover. Rahman was up on points before this event.

If things were fair in square, Rhaman owns a win over Tua and Toney, and possibly a NC in the Tua loss. While this does not excuse poor showings vs Ruiz, or Holyfield, I think Rhaman has done enough to rank in the top 50.
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:31 AM   #14
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
I lean toward the very bottom of the top 50.

A quick case for Rhaman who is now 45-6-2. 45-6-2 is a very good ring record.

1 ) He owns a knockout win over Lewis. Lewis is seen as a top 15 all time great by just about everyone and a top 10 all time great by most. Even a biased old timer like Sugar, who has Lewis at 12 or 13 hints he might move up.

2 ) He owns a knock out win over Corrie Sanders, who for arguments sake is a top 100 heavyweight. Rhaman showed heart and got off the floor to win.

3 ) Rhaman was robbed in a draw vs Tua, who for argument's sake is a top 50 all time heavyweight. Rhaman was the better. The decsion should have been his.

4 ) Rahman was robbed in a draw vs James Toney. Rhaman was the better. The decsion should have been his.

5 ) His TKO loss to Tua is controversial, as Tua landed a hard hook about 2 seconds after the bell, and Rhaman could not recover. Rahman was up on points before this event.

If things were fair in square, Rhaman owns a win over Tua and Toney, and possibly a NC in the Tua loss. While this does not excuse poor showings vs Ruiz, or Holyfield, I think Rhaman has done enough to rank in the top 50.
A very well reasoned and well stated case.

What about against other HW champs ?
(Let's ignore any meaningless alphabet and fringe titlists)

Which champs - if any - would you rate him above ?
(Either head-to-head or on resume or whatever you like)
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:32 AM   #15
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Default Re: Where would you rank Hasim Rahman among all-time heavyweights ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
I lean toward the very bottom of the top 50.

A quick case for Rhaman who is now 45-6-2. 45-6-2 is a very good ring record.

1 ) He owns a knockout win over Lewis. Lewis is seen as a top 15 all time great by just about everyone and a top 10 all time great by most. Even a biased old timer like Sugar, who has Lewis at 12 or 13 hints he might move up.

2 ) He owns a knock out win over Corrie Sanders, who for arguments sake is a top 100 heavyweight. Rhaman showed heart and got off the floor to win.

3 ) Rhaman was robbed in a draw vs Tua, who for argument's sake is a top 50 all time heavyweight. Rhaman was the better. The decsion should have been his.

4 ) Rahman was robbed in a draw vs James Toney. Rhaman was the better. The decsion should have been his.

5 ) His TKO loss to Tua is controversial, as Tua landed a hard hook about 2 seconds after the bell, and Rhaman could not recover. Rahman was up on points before this event.

If things were fair in square, Rhaman owns a win over Tua and Toney, and possibly a NC in the Tua loss. While this does not excuse poor showings vs Ruiz, or Holyfield, I think Rhaman has done enough to rank in the top 50.
Some good points, but i find it hard to say "he's top50" or "top75". I'd have to take a look at a decent top50 or top75 before making up my mind on that.

I do think there will be little between, say, a #40 and a #60.
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