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Old 05-27-2012, 12:33 PM   #1
Flo_Raiden
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Default Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

At 140. All offense vs. all defense. Could Locche handle the relentless pressure of Armstrong and avoid his shots on the inside?
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

As great as Locche was defensively, his footwork's too pondering and his power's too minimal to offset the force that is Armstrong. Armstrong was too good at finding his man, too busy and too much of a juggernaut for Locche IMO. I really rate Locche's skills, but it's hard to argue against Armstrong, considering that Locche didn't have the power and mobility needed, IMO, to supplement his defence, in regards to Armstrong.
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

Easy pic for me. Armstrong gets to Locche with ease and his varied, consistent assault is too much for Locche to consistently slip. With little to keep Hammerin' Hank off with and lacking the output to go with Armstrong and take rounds, I see no conceivable way Nico wins this.

Armstrong via wide decision. Obviously Locche was a master so he isn't getting hit with everything. This would be a beautiful fight to watch, no doubt. The greatest punch machine versus one of the greatest defensive whiz's. All things considered with the two styles here I just isn't one I envision being particularly competitive.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

Agree with the two picks so far...Armstrong comfortable decision. Armstrong would be on his chest, knocking his arms down, problably using his head, and holding Locche. Armstrong might stop him...(?)
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

Armstrong wins this...pressure...pressure...and more pressure...
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

I haven't given this as much thought as I should and don't necessarily disagree entirely with what's been said so far, but I've a tenuous feeling that Locche could have given Armstrong a much tougher night's graft than the styles would suggest on the face of things.

We all know what Armstrong brings to the table here, but to me, it's a case of whether Locche can actually respond properly rather than adopting a clownish facade in an attempt to hide being outmatched once the going gets tough. Obviously Armstrong was prodigiously strong on the inside in addition to everything else, but I think he depended just as much on neutralizing an orthodox opponent's effectiveness there by leaning across their left hand side, trying to clamp it down and projecting himself up from his low centre of gravity to knock them off balance rather than purely outmuscle them and batter them about. It was as much to do with equilibrium and effective distribution of force as it was pure strength. Locche himself was very strong with a low centre of gravity and was built like a barrel, especially at 140. He could wrestle, clinch and tangle with the best of them and was good at bending his knees and waist to accommodate strain as well as slipping punches, so it's for this reason that some small part of me thinks the following: that there might be almost as much tug-of-warring as there would be effective punching; that Armstrong wouldn't be entirely able to push Locche around and knock him off balance so easily; that he might be able to barricade his body up close and position his head on Armstrong's shoulder; that his own stature may prevent Armstrong from getting underneath him.

If I'm right, this just might work in harmony with my next somewhat ropey idea, which is that Locche's static feet might work better for him than if he were the Pep-like dancing type. Armstrong was so brilliant at cutting off the ring and building momentum in the process that constant pure boxing on the retreat would probably never contain him for the duration of a fight. But if the above paragraph has some truth in it, maybe Armstrong would never be allowed to gather up a full head of steam in terms of forward movement and Locche could depend more on slight, precise footwork if Armstrong is unable to push him back. It's Armstrong's sheer work rate that would pose the biggest problem (as well his ability to find punching room in the tightest of spaces) and (a) whether Locche can keep a cool head under all the fire and (b) if he can actually lift his own output to a level that might see him be at least partially competitive even if he doesn't do enough win. Again, I might be clutching at straws, but I think that he might have been capable of upping his punch rate to whatever he liked (although not enough to outdo Armstrong in that regard) and ad******g to what might seem to be bad match up for him, but that he often had an idle, Starlingesque attitude as well as wanting to entertain the crowd. And that he could hit harder than most people think. The way he was able to lead to the ribs with the left hook and skyrocket in uppercuts from positions that were created by his defensive upper body movement and natural balance/timing could see him have some success in that regard. And if, as I mentioned earlier, he could also tangle up Armstrong at close range enough to not have to constantly worry about slipping every single punch, it at least gives him something to go on in the face of Armstrong's onslaught.

I don't expect too many people to agree with me, nor have I gone into the myriad of arguments that can be made in favour of Armstrong. But Locche was unique and although I'd probably pick Armstrong to ultimately win the decision, this could go deeper than the usual stylistic thing and might well up being a rather ugly wrestling match.

Then again, maybe Armstrong walks all over him.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

Great theory. If Armstrong is just stood chest-to-chest will he lose momentum?

Certainly a more interesting and less one-sided way of looking at it

D'ya see my thread/upload Ribs? Know you're an admirer of Kid Pambele
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Great theory. If Armstrong is just stood chest-to-chest will he lose momentum?

Certainly a more interesting and less one-sided way of looking at it

D'ya see my thread/upload Ribs? Know you're an admirer of Kid Pambele
If it were me reading my post as written by somebody else, I'd ditch 'interesting' and substitute it with a different adjective. 'Cuntish' has a nice ring to it....

Dropped a quick post in the Cervantes thread mate, I'll get round to watching it soon enough I think. Great stuff as ever.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

I probably would, but as I know you better, I gave it second thought

lora will come in and pick Locche by K.O now. Probably by way of Kalule-Ho Joo-esque near decapitation
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

Great matchup with Loche making Armstrong miss a lot but the relentless Armstrong has too much pressure and stamina and his workrate gives him the edge W15
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong vs Nicolino Locche

The thing is, in the pocket, armstrong himself is a master of defence.

Without the power and angles to keep armstrong honest, how do you beat him?

Punch for punch he's gonna beat anyone out there more or less and that's how I see this going.

Armstrong is much better at moving forward than el intocable is at moving back.

I see no reason to assume that locche's punches will be landing clearly given henry's elite level head movement in close.

As the fight begins, if nico can establish a solid jab and quick lateral movement he might be able to control the tempo enough such that his time against the ropes is minised and he slips his way out, but sooner, rather than later, henry is gonna slip locche himself, hammer home good shots and after about round 3 the tide will turn.

I think it's a 10-5 type decision.

To beat henry with this style you need to have quicker feet and be more active at range (i think pea could pull it off, albeit controversially) but inclose henry is god himself.

Anyone allowing him to close the range from fw-ww will lose because there's only so many shots you can slip and the likelihood is you won't land many yourself.
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