Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-27-2012, 04:37 PM   #61
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Lufcrazy, you must be trolling? Surely you don't actually believe that wins over Bute, Abraham, Taylor, Johnson and Pascal, with losses to Kessler and Ward, is a greater legacy than wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell, Veit, Sheika, Lacy, prime undefeated Kessler and Hopkins?? Looking at the guys Froch has beat, only two of them have ever won a belt at SMW. Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Kessler and Lacy were all champions, former and future champions. Just about everyone has picked Calzaghe for a reason Joe would also overwhelm and beat Ward. Also Hopkins barely landed anything meaningful past round 5, at which point he was winning 3-2 on rounds with a KD. Joe then went to shuy him down, wear him down, and land the better punches. This whole 'Hopkins got robbed' is a myth that even the HBO Hopkins apologists disagreed with. He deserved to lose for faking that low blow alone, that was disgraceful to the sport, no doubt the likes of you lapped it up and called it 'old school'.
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #62
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,988
vCash: 75
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

**** off with your 'belts' rubbish.

Veit was shite. Calzaghe gets kudos for mashing him in a round.

Sheika was a longtime contender, but never much cop.

I hate giving value to 'belt holders'. You're either no.1 or a contender like the rest of 'em.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:25 PM   #63
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
**** off with your 'belts' rubbish.

Veit was shite. Calzaghe gets kudos for mashing him in a round.

Sheika was a longtime contender, but never much cop.

I hate giving value to 'belt holders'. You're either no.1 or a contender like the rest of 'em.

Belts are an achievement, and often in divisions there's no clear number 1.

Sheika beat a prime Johnson, an old Johnson was considered a notable win for Froch.

Once again, the likes of Taylor, Pascal and Abraham achived nothing at SMW.

I'm failing to see how Froch's resume is better than Calzaghe's?

Bute is a comparable win to Lacy, and that's Froch's best win at SMW.
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:26 PM   #64
bazza12
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Maidana's earlobes
Posts: 2,275
vCash: 562
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
**** off with your 'belts' rubbish.

Veit was shite. Calzaghe gets kudos for mashing him in a round.

Sheika was a longtime contender, but never much cop.

I hate giving value to 'belt holders'. You're either no.1 or a contender like the rest of 'em.
Yes.

As for the thread question, I think Froch wins a close decision.

Calzaghe, unlike Bute did not constantly move backwards in straight lines. He would often spin his opponent, and he was a very relaxed combination puncher. Calzaghe would not let Froch get set early on.

Froch would make it very awkward for Calzaghe however, as he does not charge in face first, a lot of his punches come from his trunks, and he has a fantastic chin. Froch would constantly bore in on Calzaghe and take him out of his stride as the fight wore on. I think Froch's straight right would be particularly difficult for Calzaghe to deal with.

Calzaghe is not the stronger man here, nor the harder puncher. It would be a riveting fight, and would go the distance as both have good chins. Froch definitely takes it over 15, though it would be a lot closer over 12.

I don't know why the Ward fight is being mentioned, he is fast, elusive and tactically astute. Just a nightmare.
bazza12 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:26 PM   #65
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,988
vCash: 75
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Belts are not an achievement unless it is between the no.1 and someone else.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:32 PM   #66
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Belts are not an achievement unless it is between the no.1 and someone else.

Using that argument, I can shoot down the achievements of most fighters in the modern era. I don't think that's fair in many cases
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:35 PM   #67
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,988
vCash: 75
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

I think it is. I hate the modern era.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:38 PM   #68
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,457
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
He seemed pleased that I enjoyed the fight, even if he didn't know why I was screaming at him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
athletic mauler.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
It is refuteable though, ward had success.
It's refutable that suddenly attacking Froch yielded success because Ward had success suddenly attacking him? That doesn't seem to make any sense?

Quote:
I think ward is much better suited to infighting with carl than joe is.
I disagree strongly, but wouldn't even argue the point. Closing to infight with Joe is crazy, even if it happens naturally you tend to be on the receiving end of punches. Even against an absolute master of controlling distance (Which Froch is not), Bernard Hopkins gets hit over and again whilst trying to close distance, whilst trying to get within range.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9SfWjk00cs[/ame]

Nobody, but nobody has ever done anything like what you are desribing to Calzaghe - your reasoning that he didn't fight anyone good enough to do it is not unreasonable, even if it is obviously a reach...but even more than that, you are talking about someone doing the exact thing that he wants them to do to win. See what I mean? You're not just saying that he needs to do something he's never done before you rsaying that he needs to do it even though it plays right into his hands.

Quote:
As surprising and unpredictable as joe is, you can say the same for carl.
In a sense, but he gets set in a more traditional way. He's unorthodox in terms of his attack, but, as both Kessler and Ward have shown, he is very time-able.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:38 PM   #69
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
I think it is. I hate the modern era.

Who do you consider the WW champion, Mayweather or Pacquiao? Does the other not get credit for winning titles in the division?
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:46 PM   #70
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,988
vCash: 75
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Mayweather. If people want to 'strip' him after his post-Hatton retirement, he came back and beat Mosley and beat a top ten contender afterwards (Ortiz) even if he was a poor fighter.

Luf disagrees with me big time on this. Only when the real champ' is fighting much lesser opposition than the no.2 guy and not fighting the no.2 would I break with lineage.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 05:52 PM   #71
knockout artist
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,422
vCash: 2666
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Mayweather. If people want to 'strip' him after his post-Hatton retirement, he came back and beat Mosley and beat a top ten contender afterwards (Ortiz) even if he was a poor fighter.

Luf disagrees with me big time on this. Only when the real champ' is fighting much lesser opposition than the no.2 guy and not fighting the no.2 would I break with lineage.

Interesting, I agree if you follow the line that Margarito was the man, Mosley destroyed him, then Floyd took Mosley apart, no-one has beat Floyd.

So using your line of logic, the only time Roy Jones was ever a champion in his career, was when he beat Tarver, making him the LHW Champion briefly until the rematch.
knockout artist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #72
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,875
vCash: 330
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post









It's refutable that suddenly attacking Froch yielded success because Ward had success suddenly attacking him? That doesn't seem to make any sense?



I disagree strongly, but wouldn't even argue the point. Closing to infight with Joe is crazy, even if it happens naturally you tend to be on the receiving end of punches. Even against an absolute master of controlling distance (Which Froch is not), Bernard Hopkins gets hit over and again whilst trying to close distance, whilst trying to get within range.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Nobody, but nobody has ever done anything like what you are desribing to Calzaghe - your reasoning that he didn't fight anyone good enough to do it is not unreasonable, even if it is obviously a reach...but even more than that, you are talking about someone doing the exact thing that he wants them to do to win. See what I mean? You're not just saying that he needs to do something he's never done before you rsaying that he needs to do it even though it plays right into his hands.



In a sense, but he gets set in a more traditional way. He's unorthodox in terms of his attack, but, as both Kessler and Ward have shown, he is very time-able.
I'm saying it's the man and not the style. Just because ward pulled it off doesn't mean joe can.

I think carl is stronger and has more purchase on his punches. This should see him win the exchanges. He's never met a pressure fighter as good as carl.

Joe still follows the rule book, he just as quick feet. Carl attacks in a way that wouldn't be taught, more importantly he does so successfully.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #73
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,432
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
If 1 man called you a horse you'd call it foolish; if 3 men called you a horse you'd call it a joke; if 20 men called you a horse you'd call it a conspiracy; if 100 men called you a horse get down on your hands and knees and wear a saddle.
I will take this into deep and thoughtful consideration.
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 06:46 PM   #74
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,875
vCash: 330
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Lufcrazy, you must be trolling? Surely you don't actually believe that wins over Bute, Abraham, Taylor, Johnson and Pascal, with losses to Kessler and Ward, is a greater legacy than wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell, Veit, Sheika, Lacy, prime undefeated Kessler and Hopkins?? Looking at the guys Froch has beat, only two of them have ever won a belt at SMW. Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Kessler and Lacy were all champions, former and future champions. Just about everyone has picked Calzaghe for a reason Joe would also overwhelm and beat Ward. Also Hopkins barely landed anything meaningful past round 5, at which point he was winning 3-2 on rounds with a KD. Joe then went to shuy him down, wear him down, and land the better punches. This whole 'Hopkins got robbed' is a myth that even the HBO Hopkins apologists disagreed with. He deserved to lose for faking that low blow alone, that was disgraceful to the sport, no doubt the likes of you lapped it up and called it 'old school'.
Tell you what, i'll list my top 8 froch victories at smw. You list joe's and we'll compare:

Kessler
Bute
Pascal
Johnson
Taylor
Abraham
Reid
Magee
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 06:49 PM   #75
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,875
vCash: 330
Default Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Carl Froch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Mayweather. If people want to 'strip' him after his post-Hatton retirement, he came back and beat Mosley and beat a top ten contender afterwards (Ortiz) even if he was a poor fighter.

Luf disagrees with me big time on this. Only when the real champ' is fighting much lesser opposition than the no.2 guy and not fighting the no.2 would I break with lineage.
Flea, you done made me play my trump card now!

Who do you consider to have been the top sfw: serrano or arguello
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013