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Old 05-29-2012, 01:47 PM   #16
techks
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Morales was slightly better & greater.

I thought Morales won the clearest fight of the trilogy (fight 2)... fights 1 & 3 could have gone either way... in reality, there was no real superiority shown thru 36 rounds of H2H action... you need to look at their careers outside of their H2H fights.

Morales ranks right behind Gomez as probably the greatest 122 lber ever, Barrera does not rank that high in any weight class he ever fought at.

Morales (like it or not) is a 4 weight world champ, Mexico`s first & so far only... the fact he won it vs Cano is not ideal but neither was Morales dropping a hometown decision to Diaz a few years earlier, he already should have had the honour of being Mexico`s first 4 weight champ, justice done IMHO... the Maidana performance alone while light years past his prime proved he deserved the shot.

Barrera did lose 4 times in his prime & twice by knockout... vs Junior Jones (by TKO & decision) Erik Morales (decision) & pacquiao (TKO)... both Jones & pac were decisively beaten by Erik Morales.

Morales lost once in his prime vs Barrera (decision) in a fight I scored clearly in his favour, never knocked out until way past his prime (both times to manny pac)

As far as skills & attributes in the ring, there is not a lot in it tbh....

Barrera has the better body punching, can stick to a game plan better for the most part & is the more effective inside fighter with an edge in defense....

Morales has the better jab, better footwork, the stronger chin, responds better when things are not going his way & is bit better boxer from distance.

Morales for me is the greatest Mexican fighter since Julio Cesar Chavez... for what its worth I think Barrera is 2nd, even better than Marquez.

Great post. BTW, success against certain styles or ones against the other doesn't necessarily mean one is better. Do agree that beating Pacquiao and becoming Mexico's first 4 wt champ does edge him over MAB plus one victory over him though both are great fighters.

Also agree with Morales being the greatest Mexican since Chavez though a case can be made for JMM to be ahead of Barrera but all three are the greatest Mexico has had since Chavez. Big Sanchez & JMM fan I am.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

I like Barrera much better -- but that clear win over Pacquiao has become something of a phenom. Definitely an ace in the hole for Morales.

Ah, who cares. They were both special.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

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Originally Posted by techks View Post
Great post. BTW, success against certain styles or ones against the other doesn't necessarily mean one is better. Do agree that beating Pacquiao and becoming Mexico's first 4 wt champ does edge him over MAB plus one victory over him though both are great fighters.

Also agree with Morales being the greatest Mexican since Chavez though a case can be made for JMM to be ahead of Barrera but all three are the greatest Mexico has had since Chavez. Big Sanchez & JMM fan I am.
Yes, I do agree with this.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

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I scored them 1-1-1.
1st even... 2nd for Morales... 3rd for Barrera ?
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:17 AM   #20
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

Barrera proved the master, if ever so slightly, head to head between the two. I had him winning all three fights, he did more damage in each one, and in fight three in particular, schooled Erik for large stretches of the fight. He actually tired himself out ringing Morales' bell with with big, flush combinations.

Morales was the greater fighter. Barrera fought more top level fighter, but generally did worse against them. When Morales fought at a high level, he generally won. And if they are close, the win that Morales has over Pacquiao, easily the most valuable in his resume, is now clearly the tiebreaker. He beat the men Barrera couldn't, and deserves the edge here for that reason.

H2H against others, I rank them as even. Morales proved able to defeat men Barrera could not, but, on the other hand, I think Marco would have beat men like Diaz and Raheem convincingly. They had different styles, and were both radically effective.

I put them as even. These two guys made each other better, and they were both equally awesome.
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Old 05-30-2012, 04:01 AM   #21
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

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These two guys made each other better,
I totally agree. Without each other, they may never have quite reached the same heights as they did.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:20 AM   #22
Bill Butcher
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

I still find it strange that there are some people that think Barrera won that 2nd fight, that was a clear Morales win... & they actually bring up amateur comments like `Morales faced looked more damaged` ..... ****in hell

How long have you guys been watching boxing ?... Morales always marked up easier than Barrera, not just vs each other, its to do with skin texture you daft cunts, I suppose Injin Chi beat Morales as well ?... or Duran beat Leonard in their 3rd fight ?

Morales won more rounds than Barrera in that 2nd fight, its as simple as that, the man won the fight decisively.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:24 AM   #23
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

MAB better...Morales more accomplished.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:05 AM   #24
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Morales was slightly better & greater.

I thought Morales won the clearest fight of the trilogy (fight 2)... fights 1 & 3 could have gone either way... in reality, there was no real superiority shown thru 36 rounds of H2H action... you need to look at their careers outside of their H2H fights.

Morales ranks right behind Gomez as probably the greatest 122 lber ever, Barrera does not rank that high in any weight class he ever fought at.

Morales (like it or not) is a 4 weight world champ, Mexico`s first & so far only... the fact he won it vs Cano is not ideal but neither was Morales dropping a hometown decision to Diaz a few years earlier, he already should have had the honour of being Mexico`s first 4 weight champ, justice done IMHO... the Maidana performance alone while light years past his prime proved he deserved the shot.

Barrera did lose 4 times in his prime & twice by knockout... vs Junior Jones (by TKO & decision) Erik Morales (decision) & pacquiao (TKO)... both Jones & pac were decisively beaten by Erik Morales.

Morales lost once in his prime vs Barrera (decision) in a fight I scored clearly in his favour, never knocked out until way past his prime (both times to manny pac)

As far as skills & attributes in the ring, there is not a lot in it tbh....

Barrera has the better body punching, can stick to a game plan better for the most part & is the more effective inside fighter with an edge in defense....

Morales has the better jab, better footwork, the stronger chin, responds better when things are not going his way & is bit better boxer from distance.

Morales for me is the greatest Mexican fighter since Julio Cesar Chavez... for what its worth I think Barrera is 2nd, even better than Marquez.

Clear Morales bias as ever BB, Morales is certainly no clear no2 at 122 and your very much in the minority who thought Morales has a shout for fights 1 and 3

As for him being a 4 weight champion, the Cano win was a big joke. David Diaz he did deserve the decision over but over another paper champ and worst titlist in the division. And as for 'deserving a title shot because he lost in a close fight to Maidana', seriously?

I notice when talking about decisions for belts you forgot his second championship at 126 was against Espadas and a gift decision. Perhaps he did deserve the win over MAB at 126 that would have evened it out, very close fight and Morales best shout for a win over MAB, I had it to him 7-5 but certainly not 'the clearest of the series'

In terms of lineal championships he probably only has a shout at 122, which again was a gift decision over MAB, you'll argue all day it wasn't but we all know he lost that fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Morales won more rounds than Barrera in that 2nd fight, its as simple as that, the man won the fight decisively.
It's a very close 7-5 decision either way, 1 I'd give to Morales, the first fight was the clearest fight and the true robbery of the series, something your bias will never let you admit

Again I'd go with them being on par overall, they both do better against different styles. MAB had the edge in head to heads, Morales was better against fast powerful outboxers and MAB was better against pure boxers and counter punchers
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:06 PM   #25
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

Morales by the slightest margin
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

H2H, pretty much on par IMO. All 3 fights were close. Overall, I say Morales though. The win or Pac doesn't hurt at all.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:17 PM   #27
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
I still find it strange that there are some people that think Barrera won that 2nd fight, that was a clear Morales win... & they actually bring up amateur comments like `Morales faced looked more damaged` ..... ****in hell .
I still find it strange that there are some people that think Morales won that 1st fight......that was a clear Barrera win.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:04 AM   #28
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

As I had their trilogy a damn draw (36 rounds, 18 rounds for each) so Morales for me.
Four divisions champion, fought under rated mofo in In Jin chi or Chavez, convincly beat those who utterly destroyed Barrera. And last boxer to ever beat Pacman.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:48 AM   #29
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

Like their fights, could go either way...

I have found myself bagging Barrera more than Morales though... But I think that's because Barrera fans are a little more boisterous about their man...
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:02 AM   #30
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Default Re: Barrera vs Morales....who is the better fighter in your opinion?

FIRST FIGHT


BARRERA: 1,2,3,8,9,11,12
MORALES:4,5,6,7,10

7-5 Barrera

Tough rounds to score sometimes, I think 3 and 7 could have gone either way, but they got one each, so cool. The knockdown was bs, but I still don't think Morales did enough. I think he got nailed down in the eleventh and the twelfth.



SECOND FIGHT

To me, Morales won this one pretty clearly. I just think that Barrera's strategy was all wrong, he's not going to take rounds from Morales going away and jabbing, the range is all wrong, it plays to Erik's greatest strength, and the energy he's conserving isn't going to be worth it in a 12 round fight. I think that Morales's wobbly legs come the 12th vindicate a strategy like that in a 15 round fight, and maybe helps to underline the difference between the two distances and the reasons having the longer distance might be important.

I really enjoyed Morales in the tenth, which is the highest level i've seen him fight at. That Morales really could trouble anyone in history, he controlled the action with three different styles and dominated a Barrera who was basically in the middle of a scorecard rush, having won three of the last four and about to win both the final rounds. He kept flat feet except when he had to and basically perfected his type of boxing for three minutes.

He looked disorganised again in the 11th though and got the shit knocked out of him in the 12th.

MORALES: 1,2,3,4,5,7,10
BARRERA: 6,8,9,11,12

7-5 MORALES

Certainly not a robbery but a bit of a head-scratcher. I guess they're all even for me anyway, I just have it the other way around...looking forwards to the third.



THIRD FIGHT

I think Morales at times showed a tactical naivety in the fight, but it may have been simply about his stamina and conditioning. There were snatches of rumours that he wasn't properly motivated and all that there. It's strange though, because you feel he knows what needs to be done after the first two.

Barrera's handspeed sure shows through as now legitimately superior in this one, he also looks a good deal smoother. Morales has to get into him to break that up and give himself a chance at the rounds. In the end I had him doing that, just enough to salvage a draw. But I have no qualms with the official verdict really, I think you could justify just about any close card here.

MORALES:2,4,7,8,11,12
BARRERA:1,3,5,6,9,10

6-6

Interesting that Morales pulled out the last two (eleventh is arguable) for the first time. Maybe his stepping off the gas in the mid rounds isn't a mistake. Only he'll know what he had left.

So, I have it 1-1-1 and don't agree with the judges once




I think the third one is the most interesting one, and although I have it a draw, I think it underlines why Barrera would go 2/3 with Morales officially more often than not. He's faster, he's a better composite puncher and although Morales is busier, Barrera can contest Morales rounds with harder punching and a generally superior offence. Because he's also the cuter of the two, he should be capable of outscoring Morales over 36 rounds. Morales has to work to take rounds, and that's just the harder bag, especially as it is demonstrated that he doesn't have prohibitavely more stamina than Barrera, even if he does indicate that he has more. That is, he is not equal to Barrera in freshness despite his higher workrate - he needs to deliver upon a style his body can't quite cash. There are short spells in the fights when Morales gasses a bit and Barrera immediatley becomes sharklike, dangerous looking...

Fascinating trilogy, probably overated as a blood and guts showdown, but very layered. Lots is going on. There are spells in the fight that don't look like they belong in the fight.

Morales in round 10 of 2 looks lethal, a genuine killer at the weight. That was a bit of a perfect storm for him though.
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