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Old 06-03-2012, 06:54 AM   #46
Gesta
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Leonard wouldn't have lost the first Duran fight had he used the same tactics he used in No Mas. Hell yeah, he could have been greater.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:20 AM   #47
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

Leonard is alot like Ali in the sense that he was sorta made into a cult of personality. Which makes his fans believe anything he says.

It's hilarious how his fans act as if nothing should be held against him, yet he has done plenty of things to make people view him in that manner.

****ing with Hagler n public by retiring instead of fighting him.

Waitng until he felt he could beat Hagler, instead of fighting a prime Hagler.

Never giving Halger a rematch.

Waiting 8 years till Hearns looked worse for the wear, before deciding to give him a rematch.

Waiting 9 years to give Duran a rematch. And by the time he gave him one, anyone with two eyes knew he wasn't gonna beat Leonard.

The Lalonde bullshit was a joke.

Him having him weight drained, then wating to fight for two titles in two weight classes.

I don't even see how that could be within the rules to do that.

He is an ATG, and deserves most of the positive things said about him. But he isn't some nice guy that the media makes him out to be.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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OK First thread - Here goes......

I have just finished reading the Sugar Ray Leonard Autobiography 'The Big Fight' and what a good read it was. I highly reccomend it (for what thats worth haha)

Anyway two questions came to mind on more than one occassion whilst reading the book;

If SRL had not had his problems with drink and drugs, would he have had an even better record? (maybe an obvious answer to that really I know but its more a discussion point than a question I guess)

and

Did his numerous retirements help or hinder him in terms of his record? i.e. did the breaks he took help keep him in better condition due to not being in as many bouts and taking as many punches as he would have, or did the ring rust he no doubt experienced let him down in bouts he would have otherwise won?

Your thoughts......

Cheers
I dont like Ray, never have. Read the book and saw him from day one. I will say this though. He may be the most complete fighter I ever saw. If not for the eye retirement and what not his resumea would be even greater.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #49
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

It's possible Roberto could have sensed Ray's Molestation problem, hence the insults.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:13 PM   #50
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Anyone who thinks a twenty something to early thirtysomething Leonard "gets knocked out a couple of times" is kidding themselves.

It all turned out for the best for Leonard anyway. He had so few miles put on him during that time that he gets to live his 50's and 60's not punch drunk.


The reason I said that is cuz I have no faith in his chin and neither did he, hence the late comebacks

Ray Leonard been geetting hit N hurt since the says of W. Rodriquez

Look at Geraldo

look at Howard

you'll see I'm right
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:30 PM   #51
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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He has himself to blame. Marvin seemed to need to think a guy was a real threat and then he came out smoking like against Hearns. With Ray he thought it would be easy and came out righty.
Always find a way to plug hearns eh? Must suck that somebody you dislike so much (Duran) is rated higher than Hearns by the majority of experts and people on this site...
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:48 PM   #52
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
Leonard wouldn't have lost the first Duran fight had he used the same tactics he used in No Mas.
Or Duran would have never lost the No Mas fight had he used the same tactics he used in Montreal!
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:14 AM   #53
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Leonard wouldn't have lost the first Duran fight had he used the same tactics he used in No Mas. Hell yeah, he could have been greater.
Surely, you jest!
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

...Always found it a bit strange that one must either be a Hearns fan, a Leonard fan, a Hagler fan or a Duran fan...but rarely a fan of more than one of these guys.

What happened to being a boxing fan? If you are, then surely one must also be a fan of all these guys? They were all brilliant.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:42 AM   #55
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

A 100% NO

He was 'maxed-out' on his greatness.

After the 'Gift Draw' with Thomas Hearns, the 'lustre' started to fade.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:59 AM   #56
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
...Always found it a bit strange that one must either be a Hearns fan, a Leonard fan, a Hagler fan or a Duran fan...but rarely a fan of more than one of these guys.

What happened to being a boxing fan? If you are, then surely one must also be a fan of all these guys? They were all brilliant.

Exactly!!
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:40 PM   #57
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

Ray picked his matches, though not out of fear. He and his management fought the biggest names for the most money and the most prestige, period. He was fighting only for his place in history after Hearns#1 in 1981, as he didn't need any more money.

Hence why neither he nor any other big name fought McCallum, a terrific fighter who was avoided by all except for an older Donald Curry.

Might Leonard have picked up another loss in the 1980s had he not stopped his career twice? Possibly. I doubt he would have lost more than once, if even once, because he didn't need to fight EVERY top guy who came along, just the best of the best, so he was usually at a relative peak for each fight (Bruce Finch being an exception). I doubt Ray would have fought ALL or even half of the following: Curry, Starling, McCrory, Honeyghen, McCallum, Nunn, Mugabi, Davey Moore, Benitez rematch. Head to head, he's better than all these guys anyway, but Nunn would be the tough one due to his speed, his height advantage, and his youth. Leonard said as much on the air once. They would have fought each other first, and Ray would have fought the top two or three guys after.

On the other hand, he probably never would have fought and thus lost to two clearly inferior fighters, Norris and Camacho, had he had his fill of boxing in the 1980s. And he would have had a field day with the slower, lazy James Toney.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:40 PM   #58
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
...Always found it a bit strange that one must either be a Hearns fan, a Leonard fan, a Hagler fan or a Duran fan...but rarely a fan of more than one of these guys.

What happened to being a boxing fan? If you are, then surely one must also be a fan of all these guys? They were all brilliant.
So true. Well put.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #59
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
...Always found it a bit strange that one must either be a Hearns fan, a Leonard fan, a Hagler fan or a Duran fan...but rarely a fan of more than one of these guys.

What happened to being a boxing fan? If you are, then surely one must also be a fan of all these guys? They were all brilliant.
A very casual statement indeed no doubt more suited to the casual boxing fan
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:45 PM   #60
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Default Re: Could Sugar Ray Leonard have been even greater than he was?

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
...Always found it a bit strange that one must either be a Hearns fan, a Leonard fan, a Hagler fan or a Duran fan...but rarely a fan of more than one of these guys.

What happened to being a boxing fan? If you are, then surely one must also be a fan of all these guys? They were all brilliant.

BIG WRONG! BIG TIME!

Obviously you're not from my generation, there's not one of the fab 4 i don't respect & admire above the call of duty. It's all down too who you wanted too have some personal identification with when in your teenage/formative years & yer nailed yer colours to the mast for better or worse, good times or bad.....LOYALTY too the end or it's a case of betrayal in my sense than one.........anything else qualifies you as MAN UTD supporter
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