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Old 06-01-2012, 01:24 PM   #16
RockyJim
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

I love Tunney...but if Tunney gets caught with that combination of punches from Dempsey
during the 'Long Count" fight in 1927...what happens to him when he gets a taste of the
"Suzie Q" from a prime Rocky Marciano???
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Bold prediction,
Might be a dull forum with none of those about!
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I disagree.
With your user name, I'd be very greatly disturbed if you didn't!
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Rocky gets to Tunney late.
Suz, if you answered ANY differently to me than you have with the particular handle you use for ESB, I'd be EXTREMELY concerned for your mental well being, and campaign for you to be institutionalized! (Hell, if you EVER say anything negative about the Rock in ANY such fantasy bout, I think we'd all start worrying about you, at least those of us with human decency.)

Of course our own positions are well secured. It'll be interesting to see whether or not other posters are influenced by what we offer, and how. Later, I may further address this subject, and your rebuttals. (And you and I will do it as we've always done whenever we'd disagreed on something, with civilized respect as knowledgeable gentlemen.)
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

Not even half a chance.

The circumstances of Dempseys early career were so unfavourable that a loss was inevitable.

The question is not so much whether he would have bveaten Gene Tunney as whether he would have beaten Joe Journeyman when he hadn't eaten for three days.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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I see your point Don, so i'd say Marciano would go 75-2 most likely.

I think the 3 year Hollywood layoff badly damages Rocky's chances against Tunney no matter how hard he trained (which would certainly involved Spartan-like dedication to supreme conditioning), even though he'd still do notably better than Dempsey & actually make it a tough fight even if the cards were wide, I see there being enough close rounds for it to not be called an easy nights work for Gene.

Peak Marciano however would've given Tunney a 50/50 trilogy I think though, whereas Dempsey would always be made to look a fool.
I disagree that its a 50/50 trilogy. I think the best Tunney beats the best Marciano, not with ease but with enough rounds in the bank to just try and survive late.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Not even half a chance.

The circumstances of Dempseys early career were so unfavourable that a loss was inevitable.

The question is not so much whether he would have bveaten Gene Tunney as whether he would have beaten Joe Journeyman when he hadn't eaten for three days.
Very good point. It is not that Dempsey fought more sensational fighters at all than rocky it is more the circumstances of the day. Most champions are groomed from day one -thatís why they make it. sure they have talent but a lot of one to one work goes into them achieving their goals. Jack Dempsey himself might have went 77-0 if he had the right team around him, the best matchmaker of the day steering his ship from the beginning and no breaks from boxing longer than 6 months as a champion. It is a nonsense to ask if one fighter beats all the early guys during his early stage, the only plausible question in this subject is "once this champion had reached main event level does he beat the same guys the other champ did?"
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

Marciano easily beats all of Dempsey's opponents Tunney included in his prime years and past his prime years. When he was green though he may have picked up the odd loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonBoxer View Post
I disagree that its a 50/50 trilogy. I think the best Tunney beats the best Marciano, not with ease but with enough rounds in the bank to just try and survive late.
If Charles and Walcott can't do it the less technically sound Tunney wouldn't
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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If Charles and Walcott can't do it the less technically sound Tunney wouldn't
I agree that in terms of text book technique Charles and Walcott more sound than Tunney, but i feel his understanding of movement paired with his speed would see him UD Marciano.

The more technical fighter dosent always win. As Marciano himself proved vs Charles and Walcott.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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I agree that in terms of text book technique Charles and Walcott more sound than Tunney, but i feel his understanding of movement paired with his speed would see him UD Marciano.

The more technical fighter dosent always win. As Marciano himself proved vs Charles and Walcott.
Marciano's technical pressure is actually pretty impressive, always looking to make you miss and counter/lead or feint, to keep you on edge, and has every punch to hit you with. So you don't know what he's going to hit you with, because he has a great right, great left hook, great bodypunching with either hand and brilliant timing and judge of distance. Allot of fighters might only have a great right or left but he had both

Even if Tunney builds up a lead he'll tire, especially with the body attack and pace Marciano would force, that's where Marciano takes over, sooner or later you have to fight him in the pocket. How good is Tunney on the inside, I'm not sure
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

it,s a shame that he didn,t fight once more ...50-0 sounds way better then 49-0 , don,t you think ? 77-0 ? no, that wasn,t going to happen.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

Duodenum,

I rate Marciano as my # 5 all time heavyweight. I do pick quite a few heavyweights over him h2h. I don't pick any sub 190lber over him h2h. p4p Rocky is boxing's all time animal.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

Quote:
it,s a shame that he didn,t fight once more
Who'd you want to see him beat on? big Bob Baker or teenager Floyd Patterson?
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

Its very tough to take a fighter from one era and put him in another without taking all the circumstances into account. Tough times in America for Jack who had to travel under a train holding on to the undercarriage to avoid the trainman metal bar. Dempsey was hungry and had lean hard muscle and fought in coal mining towns against the tough guys.

I think the era that developed Marciano and Charlie Goldman along with Marciano's was a healthier era and Marciano's circumstance and eating habits (GREAT FOOD) better than Dempsey and Walcotts, so if Marciano came from that era he may not be as strong

If there was a such thing as a time machine Marciano would wreck havoc on the era but not with out tough fights, Tunney would be a rough battle but Rock would catch him

The thing is as times goes by we learn and as each era passes there is something to learn from and something to improve on so If we took Marciano,Ali or Louis back to Dempsey's day they may not have the example to improve on.


Its hard to see Marciano's crazy training and workrate holding up for over 60 fights even if he started out younger, the body could take so much but Marciano was a beast with one of the best wills to win I have ever seen so you never know.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

rocky marciano could ov went 100-0 in jack dempseys era what was the worst ever ever era of heavyweigfhts
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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rocky marciano could ov went 100-0 in jack dempseys era what was the worst ever ever era of heavyweigfhts
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

congrats! Your typing has dramatically improved
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #30
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

marciano, as mcgrain stated, always burns out due to his style
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