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Old 06-01-2012, 06:56 PM   #31
BillB
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by RockyJim View Post
49-0 is good enough...Rocky's style of fighting doesn't translate to a long career...Marciano got out of the fight game while he still had his powers...he didn't make a fool of himself with a comeback...
Marciano certainly considered a comeback.

I recall during that time there was an interview with Marciano every few months in some boxing magazine. His main theme was that he was thinking of coming back and flattening Patterson.

In a way, I wish he had. I would like to have seen him fight a prime Liston.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Who'd you want to see him beat on? big Bob Baker or teenager Floyd Patterson?
Don,t know , just wanted the 50-0 record...
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
marciano, as mcgrain stated, always burns out due to his style
This is a bit of an assumption, he was very efficient in his style so fading stamina may not have hit him too hard, he also trained very hard so maintained his youth quite well

I don't think coming out of retirement would have been good for him though with all the speed and stamina he would have lost from inactivity
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

No..his style and age wouldn't allow it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:53 PM   #35
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Bold prediction, I disagree. Rocky gets to Tunney late
I agree. Logically, Tunney would have the right style to keep Marciano at a safe distance and win a UD... However with Rocky you've got to throw logic out the window, just like he had to do to win the HW belt and remain undefeated. Greb was able to get to Tunney and smother him and I heard Marciano was kinda good at it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:55 PM   #36
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
This is a bit of an assumption, he was very efficient in his style so fading stamina may not have hit him too hard, he also trained very hard so maintained his youth quite well

I don't think coming out of retirement would have been good for him though with all the speed and stamina he would have lost from inactivity
true, i'm assuming a lot. i just put him in the joe frazier category, the damage he was forced to take in his fights was near inhuman and i just can't see a long career
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #37
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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I agree. Logically, Tunney would have the right style to keep Marciano at a safe distance and win a UD... However with Rocky you've got to throw logic out the window, just like he had to do to win the HW belt and remain undefeated. Greb was able to get to Tunney and smother him and I heard Marciano was kinda good at it.
I think it was Ali who said - it's one thing to talk about fighting Marciano. It's another thing to get in the ring with him.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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I think it was Ali who said - it's one thing to talk about fighting Marciano. It's another thing to get in the ring with him.
Nice quote.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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I think it was Ali who said - it's one thing to talk about fighting Marciano. It's another thing to get in the ring with him.
Rocky is a relentless beast, Ali expected him to take it easy for the simulation, but ended up with bruised kidneys & rattled ribs.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:18 AM   #40
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Who'd you want to see him beat on? big Bob Baker or teenager Floyd Patterson?
He had Nino set for the 50th fight but Nino lost to Bob Satterfeild pretty badly killing the interest in a Marciano fight, Satterfield who already lost to many of Marciano's victims was not marketable and Al Weill was really getting under Rocky's skin, he felt he had another 3-4 fights in him but no real money fights out there.

It is known that after Patterson lost to Joey Maxim he was not going to commit himself to Marciano because Cus knew that was a wrong fight for Floyd so Floyd was not going to go near Rocky, any talk from Cus after Rocky retired was just that, Cus knew Rocky was not coming back.
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Old 06-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #41
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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If we take just Dempsey's known fights from 1914 - '27 (and there are probably a few missing in that time period anyway), and have Marciano do the exact same schedule, he's going to have to fight until an older age.
Marciano turned professional age 23 1/2, and last fought soon after turning 32.
On Dempsey's schedule if he turns pro at 23 1/2, he'd be about 36 1/2 against Sharkey and Tunney II.

Also, we have no idea how he'd do against most of Dempsey's opponents, who we just don't have much info on.
Let's not forget that Marciano had two controversial points wins in his own 49-0 career.
And three of Dempsey's recorded defeats, and several of his fights, were limited to 4 rounds, a distance over which Marciano may well have proved more susceptible to spoilers.
That's one of the things about translating Marciano in different eras, he was in the army three years (WWII), in other eras he may well have come to boxing a bit younger. Now, another question, would Rocky, in Jack's era, have done a short WWI stint?
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:10 AM   #42
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by Brownies View Post
I agree. Logically, Tunney would have the right style to keep Marciano at a safe distance and win a UD... However with Rocky you've got to throw logic out the window, just like he had to do to win the HW belt and remain undefeated. Greb was able to get to Tunney and smother him and I heard Marciano was kinda good at it.
Exactly the way I've always seen it.

What Tunney did against Hollywood Dempsey tends to overstate how good he was at keeping swarmers off him. I mean we all admit Dempsey wasn't himself in those fights, and what Tunney did was still amazing..you have to wander.

The much smaller Greb had some success swarming Tunney, even fighting him to what some consider a fair draw in their second match. The first match, Gerg got to Tunney late and did some damage..so I'm not sure about him being an overwhelming favorite over Marciano at all..


Pittsburgh Post reported that Tunney fought extremely well. He made a great fight for 10 rounds, but Greb set a pace in the last five that overwhelmed his opponent. Tunney's eyebrows were cut and he bled at the nose and mouth. Greb fought his usual fight, all over his man, and chopping him up. Tunney fought Greb much better than Tommy Gibbons had done in New York.
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Last edited by The Mongoose; 06-04-2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by Brownies View Post
I agree. Logically, Tunney would have the right style to keep Marciano at a safe distance and win a UD... However with Rocky you've got to throw logic out the window, just like he had to do to win the HW belt and remain undefeated. Greb was able to get to Tunney and smother him and I heard Marciano was kinda good at it.
Of course you have to throw logic out the window. How else can you justify the walk on water approach for a fighter whose greatest win was against a 33 year old Ezzard Charles .. ... Greb smothered Tunney , to the degree that he did, with lightning hand and foot speed along with super human endurance ... Rocky had the endurance but about a third of the hand speed. Gene and Rocky is a terrific match up ..
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:13 PM   #44
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

It's possible, but I'd wager a confident no. I don't think we can downplay the hardships Dempsey had to endure early in his career. It's nothing something to stir up nostalgia about the days of men who were harder and tougher but it was a tough circumstance that more modern fighters who had better access to things they probably take for granted. That has to play some factor.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Could Marciano have feasibly went 77-0 in place of Dempsey?

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Nah, Marciano got in the game late and his already banged up body was lucky to hold up as long as it did.

Dempsey was fighting professionally since he was 19.

I don't think Rocky would have lost to Tunney twice though. If he had lost his drive as much as Dempsey did during his celebrity years, he would have just hung them up. Marciano strikes me as an "all or nothing" kind of guy who wouldn't have fought on if he wasn't completely commited.
Right on the money Mongoose.
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