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Old 06-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #1
Brownies
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Default Classic fights you saw differently than most people

Hi,

Everyone knows that judging a fight is a difficult task. Take 5 fans and show them a fight and you'll probably get 3 to 5 different cards. Over the time, a close fight that could've went to both guys can become a clear victory. I would like to know if anyone have seen some old classic fights that you scored differently than the judges/other people.

I was watching Walcott vs Marciano the other day and scored the fight in favor of Marciano up to the KO.

1st round : Walcott was brilliant with his left hook : he's landing it at will. He scored a KD with the same shot he KOed Ezzard Charles with.

2-6 : All (but the 5) are close rounds that I scored for Marciano. I think Walcott got overconfident he'd KO Marciano fast with his left hook. He's fighting well, but it takes him 5 rounds to realize that Marciano has made some adjusments. Rocky is blocking most of Walcott's shot while throwing some huge body shots. He's relentless in all 3 minutes of every rounds. The 5 was a close one, but Walcott threw some flashy combinations to win the round... while Rocky was doing the most damage in my opinion.

7 : Close round that I scored for Marciano. However, Walcott is starting to make some good adjusments in this round. He gets more on the backfoot and slow the tempo. He circle to his left at the perfect distance to dissect Marciano with his jab. However, Rocky gets on the inside in the second half of the round and land enough powershot to steal the round (on my card).

8 : Best round for Jersey Joe since the first round. He does what he tried to do in the 7 perfectly : keep Marciano at bay with his jab and make Rocky look amateurish, trying to leap in. Great ring generalship without wasting to much energy.

9 : close to a 10-10 round. Both landed some great shot and rolled well with it. Some would score it for Marciano because of the big right he landed in the final seconds. Biggest blow in a round of big blows. However, I think that Walcott landed more.

10 : Big big Marciano round. He landed his Suzie Q over and over. His body work in the early rounds have slowed Walcott.

11 : Jersey Joe gets a second wind and start landing the left hook again. Marciano looks hurt in the last minute.

12 : Walcott is on the back foot the entire round and jabs kinda well, looks like he's trying to catch his breath after his big 11 round. His feet have trouble keeping up with his mind, because of Rocky's early bodywork (or Walcott's age). Marciano keeps chasing him and land 3 or 4 powershots. I scored it for Marciano based on ring generalship. It's too obvious that Jersey Joe is tired and is trying to stay far from Marciano.

13 : The announcer said before the round :

And now we go round 13.. the unlucky number... maybe. Less than a minute later, Marciano landed his famous right hand. Ciao bella.

Marciano : 2-3-4-6-7-10-12
Walcott : 1-5-8-9-11

I had Marciano up by 2 rounds up to the KO. I know I score rounds differently than many others, but the consensus on this fight seems to be that Walcott was outboxing Marciano up until the 13 rounds where Rocky scored a one punch KO. My opinion on this is that both guys were hard to hit in this fight and fought well.

The KO to my eye wasn't a simple one punch KO. Marciano threw some heavy body shots from the 2 round up to the KO. Also, he landed a lot of huge right hands in the 10 round that were similar to the one that put Walcott down. In my opinion, it indicates that these guy could have fought 10 times and the result would've been the same all 10 times. It was a close and slow fight leading up to what seemed like a somewhat lucky KO to some people, but seemed unavoidable to my eye.

Any comments on my view of this fight ? Any other classic fights you saw differently ?
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

I thought Joe Frazier earned a draw in the second fight with Ali.

Im not a big fan of holding that much so I didnt give Ali as much credit for that fight.

When ESPN shows the fight now they have Ferdie Pacheco`s voice over to make sure we all know that Ali was landing those flurries they were about a foot short.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
I thought Joe Frazier earned a draw in the second fight with Ali.

Im not a big fan of holding that much so I didnt give Ali as much credit for that fight.

When ESPN shows the fight now they have Ferdie Pacheco`s voice over to make sure we all know that Ali was landing those flurries they were about a foot short.
You sure aren't the only person to blame Ali for his holding. The problem is : we end up scoring his fights without knowing what kind of effects it would've had if the ref didn't allowed him to hold. I don't know if Ali or the ref is to blame... or both. In his fight against Foreman, I don't believe his holding had much effect because Ali was beating him to the punch over and over anyway. Too much difference in hand speed and a too good chin from Ali. However, his holding could've saved him in other fights. A lot of people blamed Khan vs Peterson, but what he did was less obvious than what Ali did...
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

I thought Dempsey should have been DQ'd against Willard and deemed KO'd vs. Firpo.
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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I thought Dempsey should have been DQ'd against Willard and deemed KO'd vs. Firpo.
Dempsey vs Willard : based on 1919 rules or how we see it nowadays ? I don't like to see him rush over a guy barely on his feet against a KD, but it was common on these days as we all know (thank god it's not the same anymore).

The Firpo fight is a hard one, because it is such a good story. All the KD, then the champ thrown out the ring before he comes back and KO the other guy. I don't know how much the people at ringside helped him climbing back into the ring. He didn't look thay bad right after, as he was able to clinch Firpo fast. Do you know what were the rules back then when a fighter was thrown out the ring ? Was it 20 seconds ?
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

I thought both Pryor-Arguello I and Duran-Leonard I were highly overrated fights.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:23 AM   #7
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You sure aren't the only person to blame Ali for his holding. The problem is : we end up scoring his fights without knowing what kind of effects it would've had if the ref didn't allowed him to hold. I don't know if Ali or the ref is to blame... or both. In his fight against Foreman, I don't believe his holding had much effect because Ali was beating him to the punch over and over anyway. Too much difference in hand speed and a too good chin from Ali. However, his holding could've saved him in other fights. A lot of people blamed Khan vs Peterson, but what he did was less obvious than what Ali did...
Against Frazier it did have a big effect on the fight. It wasnt just standard clinching. It was Ali pulling the back of Frazier`s head down and in so Joe couldnt work inside.

Ali did that 112 times in 12 rounds. Eddie Futch complained to Tony Perez during the fight about it and Perez promised that he would penalize Ali but he never did.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
I thought both Pryor-Arguello I and Duran-Leonard I were highly overrated fights.

Duran/Leonard I can understand but Arguello/Pryor?
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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I thought both Pryor-Arguello I and Duran-Leonard I were highly overrated fights.
Really one of the greatest exhibitions of skill and talent ever put on film. Almost impossible to over-rate.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:48 AM   #10
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Really one of the greatest exhibitions of skill and talent ever put on film. Almost impossible to over-rate.
Duran`s performance was but the overall fight wasnt as exciting as ETM/Pryor IMV.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:53 AM   #11
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

Recently scored Froch-Kessler for Froch 7-5. Thought it was rather clear, was surprised that so many people thought Kessler won.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
I thought Joe Frazier earned a draw in the second fight with Ali.

Im not a big fan of holding that much so I didnt give Ali as much credit for that fight.

When ESPN shows the fight now they have Ferdie Pacheco`s voice over to make sure we all know that Ali was landing those flurries they were about a foot short.

I score it 7 - 5 Ali. A lot of people mention the clinching,but it was hardly illegal,was it ? Ali still did enough to earn the victory. And of course,Tony Perez's flash bout of Tinnitus in the second round tends to get forgotten.

This fight does tend to get an undeserved bad press in my opinion. Okay,it may not have had the signifigance and drama of their first bout or the sheer savagery of the third,but it was still a pretty good bout on it's own merits.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
I thought both Pryor-Arguello I and Duran-Leonard I were highly overrated fights.
I go with the consensus here. Both bouts were great.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:08 AM   #14
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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Originally Posted by Brownies View Post
The Firpo fight is a hard one, because it is such a good story. All the KD, then the champ thrown out the ring before he comes back and KO the other guy. I don't know how much the people at ringside helped him climbing back into the ring. He didn't look thay bad right after, as he was able to clinch Firpo fast. Do you know what were the rules back then when a fighter was thrown out the ring ? Was it 20 seconds ?
As far as I know that rule is still in place today, a referee is allowed to give a fighter up to 20 seconds to get himself back into the ring if knocked out of it.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: Classic fights you saw differently than most people

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Recently scored Froch-Kessler for Froch 7-5. Thought it was rather clear, was surprised that so many people thought Kessler won.
Mentioning Kessler I thought Kessler fairly clearly beat Joe Calzaghe - also thought Bernard Hopkins also 'edged' Calzaghe and earlier in his career I Famously (in my bachelor pad at least) scored the David Starie-Joe Calzaghe fight to David Starie by 10 rounds to 2 haha
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