Pacquiao or Mayweather...who exceeded our expectations more?

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Not changing the topic but Pac's actions in turning down the fight then accepting it years later just proves it further.

Mosley was the better opponent at the time. Fighting for the real belt against a top P4P'er is better than fighting for a diamond belt at a catchweight against a guy who just got KTFO by a guy that Mosley just KTFO.

several things you missed:

1. mosley offered to fight pacquiao at 140.
2. if not 140, it woud be at 143.
3. cotto ahd beaten mosley.
4. mosley was shot at that time.

cotto is a better choice of opponent for his legacy and in hindsight.

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

several things you missed:

1. mosley offered to fight pacquiao at 140.
2. if not 140, it woud be at 143.
3. cotto ahd beaten mosley.
4. mosley was shot at that time.

cotto is a better choice of opponent for his legacy and in hindsight.

No, It would have been Pac's fifth lineal title fighting Shane. Much better for his legacy than fighting Cotto for the diamond catchweight belt.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by turbotime

No, It would have been Pac's fifth lineal title fighting Shane. Much better for his legacy than fighting Cotto for the diamond catchweight belt.

i would say it again until you understand:

1. mosley offered to fight at 140.
2. shane mosley is not lineal at 147.
3. if not 140, they would be fighting at 143.
4. mosley is shot.

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

i would say it again until you understand:

1. mosley offered to fight at 140.
2. shane mosley is not lineal at 147.
3. if not 140, they would be fighting at 143.
4. mosley is shot.

Shane was absolutely lineal. Floyd retired, Cotto and Marg fought to re-establish it. Shane then took the title from Marg and was considered the man in the division.

I doubt you were following boxing back then though.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Shane was absolutely lineal. Floyd retired, Cotto and Marg fought to re-establish it. Shane then took the title from Marg and was considered the man in the division.

I doubt you were following boxing back then though.

lineality was not established in the cotto-margarito fight. it was supposed to be established for the floyd-cotto fight but floyd retired instead. until now, there is no lineal champ until floyd and pac get it on at WW..

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

lineality was not established in the cotto-margarito fight. it was supposed to be established for the floyd-cotto fight but floyd retired instead. until now, there is no lineal champ until floyd and pac get it on at WW..

Floyd took the lineal title beating Mosley to re-establish his lineal reign from when he beat Baldomir.

[puga_ni_nana]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Floyd took the lineal title beating Mosley to re-establish his lineal reign from when he beat Baldomir.

nah, he failed to re-establish it when he retired instead of fighting cotto. he needs to beat pac now to re-establish it. mosley was ranked #1 but pac was #2 and floyd needed to beat him to get it back.

[king khan]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

several things you missed:

1. mosley offered to fight pacquiao at 140.
2. if not 140, it woud be at 143.
3. cotto ahd beaten mosley.
4. mosley was shot at that time.

cotto is a better choice of opponent for his legacy and in hindsight.

Gotta agree here. . . Cotto was a much better selection of opponent - then, and now. . . Cotto had beat Mosley? Who cares about Margarito, and the triangle theory. . Cotto>Mosley. . Most real boxing fans knew at the time (especially once it came out that margarito PLASTERED UP), that Mosley was not some "rejuvenated" boxer, he was the same shot Mosley that almost lost to Mayorga. . .

Moreover, Clottey > Mosley. . Clottey's still never really been "beaten" except for Pac. . Against Margarito, he still made it a close fight despite being a one-handed boxer.

Finally, JUST FOR GOOD MEASURE, and so there could be no excuses from the "haters, and excuse makers", he went on to beat Margarito, AND Mosley anyway

[Concrete]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

Actually, the expectations from floyd has subsided at the higher weights. floyd gets alot of credit for mosley and cotto, while pac's win over the same opponents were deemed inferior.

Its about the time frame they both fought them at. Mosley and Cotto were both riding high when they fought Mayweather and riding low when they fought Pac its really that simple as to why expectations were different. And Pac vs Cotto was deemed a 50-50 fight with Cotto riding low and Pac comming up in weight. Mayweather vs Cotto would never be considered a 50-50 fight in any time frame.

If Pac knocks out Bradley and Mayweather fights Bradley 1 or 2 fights after and he looks like shit in those fights. Pac would get more credit fighting the same opponent because he beat Bradley riding high.

Mayweather would be the favorite over Pac, he has higher expectations.

[Concrete]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

i would say it again until you understand:

1. mosley offered to fight at 140.
2. shane mosley is not lineal at 147.
3. if not 140, they would be fighting at 143.
4. mosley is shot.

Cotto vs Mosley was a very very very close fight. It wasn't like Cotto beat Mosley's ass.

Mosley was ready and available while Cotto had a fight lined up yet they waited for Cotto.

Mosley was full of confidence at that point while Cotto mentally wasn't sure if he could handle damage.

He fought Oscar at 147 he should have been willing to fight Mosley.

Pac still deserves credit for fighting and beating Cotto though lets not get that twisted. Mosley would have been a tougher fight though at that point in time.

[thawk888]

Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana

and you are clueless if you think pac has ducked mosley. has it dawned on you why pac was watching the cotto-clottey fight live at the MSG the same way floyd was watching berto-ortiz fight? silly oscarsexual...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8T0LpIjG68[/ame]

[tliang1000]

Manny P. I would've never expected for him to be p4p when i first saw him against Barrera.

[king khan]

Originally Posted by Concrete

Cotto vs Mosley was a very very very close fight. It wasn't like Cotto beat Mosley's ass.

Mosley was ready and available while Cotto had a fight lined up yet they waited for Cotto.

Mosley was full of confidence at that point while Cotto mentally wasn't sure if he could handle damage.

He fought Oscar at 147 he should have been willing to fight Mosley.

Pac still deserves credit for fighting and beating Cotto though lets not get that twisted. Mosley would have been a tougher fight though at that point in time.

No, Mosley, and Cotto would have been the exact same fight, time of selection notwithstanding (unless we're talking Mosley late 90's-early 2000's). . . . Pac, and FLoyd both fought the exact same Mosley. . . Pac and Floyd both fought the exact same Cotto. . . Pac got to Cotto first, and Floyd got to Mosley first. . . Cotto > Mosley.

[Concrete]

Originally Posted by king khan

No, Mosley, and Cotto would have been the exact same fight, time of selection notwithstanding (unless we're talking Mosley late 90's-early 2000's). . . . Pac, and FLoyd both fought the exact same Mosley. . . Pac and Floyd both fought the exact same Cotto. . . Pac got to Cotto first, and Floyd got to Mosley first. . . Cotto > Mosley.

We will just agree to disagree

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by king khan

No, Mosley, and Cotto would have been the exact same fight, time of selection notwithstanding (unless we're talking Mosley late 90's-early 2000's). . . . Pac, and FLoyd both fought the exact same Mosley. . . Pac and Floyd both fought the exact same Cotto. . . Pac got to Cotto first, and Floyd got to Mosley first. . . Cotto > Mosley.