Question about Billy Graham

[red cobra]

I was always under the impression that Bllly Graham was never decked as a pro...but I've read snippets here and there..certain posts that is..posted with an air of authority..that he was decked just once..but I don't recall by whom. Well, whats the truth, did Graham ever suffer a knockdown in his career or not?

[red cobra]

bump

[Nightcrawler]

never heard this but very curious...

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by red cobra

I was always under the impression that Bllly Graham was never decked as a pro...but I've read snippets here and there..certain posts that is..posted with an air of authority..that he was decked just once..but I don't recall by whom. Well, whats the truth, did Graham ever suffer a knockdown in his career or not?

Rc, I know the career of Billy Graham quite well as a youngster my dad took me to St Nicholas Arena in NY. while waiting to go through the turnstyle with our tickets, a young blondish guy walked past the ticket taker carrying a small bag...This young fellow fought a 4 rd prelim under the name of billy Graham...I saw him quite a few times in his career, and I am quite certain Graham in 126 bouts was NEVER ko'd, NEVER on the floor and according to his trainer Whitey Bimstein, NEVER badly hurt...Billy Graham had an iron chin and was a great classic boxer who lacked one thing, and that was punching power...If Graham could hit he would be a top 10 welterweight, so clever he was....Probably be WW champ today, no doubt...

[red cobra]

Thanks burt..I've always thought that was the case..and this has to be somewhat unique IMO,..BG had to have the best set of whiskers ever..in a class with Oliver McCall to be sure....only I think Graham fought better competition and of course had more fights.

[sweet_scientist]

Billy Graham was the man, but Kid Gavilan dropped him in Havana.


Attendance: 40,000, the largest crowd in Cuban boxing history to date. "It was the most lopsided victory the Cuban Kid had staged in his four meetings with the New York Irishman, two of which were for the 147-pound title. Graham was on the canvas twice, once from a half-slip. His left eye was practically closed, and his right eye badly bruised.... Gavilan, who comes from the sugar cane fields of nearby Camaguey, gave one of the best performances of his career. He started off in the first round and began making Graham fight exactly the way he wanted him to. The Kid let Graham do the forcing, then consistently feinted the challenger into leading, so he could counter with flashy effectiveness. As early as the second round, the speedy Cuban reopened an old cut on the bridge of 30-year old Graham's nose. In that same session, a left hook to the body sent Irish Billy to the canvas in a half-slip, half-knockdown. There was no count. Gavilan, as fast as a cat at the same 146¼ pounds Graham weighed, had Billy groggy in the eighth with a steaming right that knocked him into the ropes, and a left hook. In the 14th, a hard right to the chin dropped Graham to one knee. He had been staggered earlier in the session by another Gavilan right." -Jack Cuddy, UP

[dmar5143]

half slip-half knockdown means to me balance was off.a knockdown by the rules perhaps but not a knockdown in the classic sence..billy graham was a clever skilled fighter with a great chin.he wasnt a big puncher but if he fought today he is capable of beating any welter out there.his skill level excedes by far any welter outside of floyd.he fought competion on a high level.he fought in a era when welters actualy fought middles and both divisions were stacked deep with talent and complete fighters.
he like others in that era were tough and skilled.example a kid gavilyn had as many fights was never koed and decked only once by basilio.this is a feat that today would not be matched since 1.the kid fought top competion that totaled over 40 -50 fights and fought a few years or maybe 25 fights when he was past his best.both fighters like many of that era were built trained for the long haul.i cant think of one fighter today that could match the fighting schudle of both thoses guys year in and year out without getting blasted out of there several times.a special era with special complete fighters.

[Duodenum]

Here's the report S_S provided, as it appears from boxwreck:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

If accurate, it seems there's some ambiguity over the validity of the second round "half-slip/half knockdown" no-count event, but Billy's drop to one knee from a hard Gavilan right in round 14 would appear to pretty clearly have been a clean knockdown. The "Keed" had staggered Graham earlier in the round, and previously wobbled him in the eight with an earlier right according to Cuddy's reporting. We need some eyewitness corroboration independent of Cuddy's account. I'd think he was hardly the only member of the press from the English speaking world present at this bout.

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by dmar5143

half slip-half knockdown means to me balance was off.a knockdown by the rules perhaps but not a knockdown in the classic sence..billy graham was a clever skilled fighter with a great chin.he wasnt a big puncher but if he fought today he is capable of beating any welter out there.his skill level excedes by far any welter outside of floyd.he fought competion on a high level.he fought in a era when welters actualy fought middles and both divisions were stacked deep with talent and complete fighters.
he like others in that era were tough and skilled.example a kid gavilyn had as many fights was never koed and decked only once by basilio.this is a feat that today would not be matched since 1.the kid fought top competion that totaled over 40 -50 fights and fought a few years or maybe 25 fights when he was past his best.both fighters like many of that era were built trained for the long haul.i cant think of one fighter today that could match the fighting schudle of both thoses guys year in and year out without getting blasted out of there several times.a special era with special complete fighters.

So TRUE...If as the article you cite above was true that Graham was dropped by the KEED in 1952,it was the first I heard about it...In 1952 Billy was 30 years old with about 110 bouts, past his peak and would retire soon after...In the BOXING REGISTER IT STATES THAT Billy Graham was NEVER FLOORED in his long career of 126 bouts...In 1951 Graham lost a controversial decision to Gavilan who was 4 years younger and Graham would be called "the uncrowned CHAMP" thereafter...
P.S. to think that Jack Britton who Graham fought like in a similar style, HAD 346 bouts in his career,and aside from a prelim bout was NEVER STOPPED is mind boggling...

[Nightcrawler]

[quote=burt bienstock;12992092]So TRUE...If as the article you cite above was true that Graham was dropped by the KEED in 1952,it was the first I heard about it...In 1952 Billy was 30 years old with about 110 bouts, past his peak and would retire soon after...In the BOXING REGISTER IT STATES THAT Billy Graham was NEVER FLOORED in his long career of 126 bouts...In 1951 Graham lost a controversial decision to Gavilan who was 4 years younger and Graham would be called "the uncrowned CHAMP" thereafter...
P.S. to think that Jack Britton who Graham fought like in a similar style, HAD 346 bouts in his career,and aside from a prelim bout was NEVER STOPPED is mind boggling...[/quote]


pfff, it's not like they were tough back then or anything

[frankenfrank]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

So TRUE...If as the article you cite above was true that Graham was dropped by the KEED in 1952,it was the first I heard about it...In 1952 Billy was 30 years old with about 110 bouts, past his peak and would retire soon after...In the BOXING REGISTER IT STATES THAT Billy Graham was NEVER FLOORED in his long career of 126 bouts...In 1951 Graham lost a controversial decision to Gavilan who was 4 years younger and Graham would be called "the uncrowned CHAMP" thereafter...
P.S. to think that Jack Britton who Graham fought like in a similar style, HAD 346 bouts in his career,and aside from a prelim bout was NEVER STOPPED is mind boggling...

Jack Britton was KOd in 1 rd in 1905 by Steve Kinney .
And those numbers include sparing sessions and what not .
Britton and Graham were probably very good .
Graham has a win over WSJ in d amateurs , Y didn't they fight again in d pros ? somehow i believe that WSJ would have stopped him and a further look in2 Graham's record reinforces it and suggests that if anything it was Graham who wanted nothing 2 do with WSJ . I wonder how legit was his "win" over WSJ in d amateurs . Graham's record seems like 1 of a protected fighter .

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Jack Britton was KOd in 1 rd in 1905 by Steve Kinney .
And those numbers include sparing sessions and what not .
Britton and Graham were probably very good .
Graham has a win over WSJ in d amateurs , Y didn't they fight again in d pros ? somehow i believe that WSJ would have stopped him and a further look in2 Graham's record reinforces it and suggests that if anything it was Graham who wanted nothing 2 do with WSJ . I wonder how legit was his "win" over WSJ in d amateurs . Graham's record seems like 1 of a protected fighter .

You're hilarious at times....