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Old 06-03-2012, 02:53 PM   #1
Philly-Tough
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Default Ruben Olivares

At his best how good was he? What was the general consensus on him at his peak- P4P or just a great champion? How good was his resume and are there any major challengers he didn't face? What where his best performances and what of his fights would you recomend someone watch who's never seen him fight before? Whar are his top 5 wins?

Thanks, I really want to brush up on my knowledge of the smaller fighters through history. The more of the smaller fighters I watch the more I recognise I'm missing.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

One of the greatest bantamweights of all time. His destruction of the ace Lionel Rose is arguably his best performance at his best weight.

A notorious party animal led to some sub-par performances and a patchy looking ring record, but even past his best he outboxed Alexis Arguello for many rounds. Olivares could be hurt, but displayed resiliency to battle it out with big featherweight punchers past his peak, like Arguello, Chacon (who Ruben bested in a trilogy) and Danny Lopez. Held titles at 118 and 126 when there was no super bantamweight division.

Chucho Castillo, Rafael Herrera (beat Ruben twice), Lionel Rose, Jose Medal and Alan Rudkin were all bantamweights of the very highest order. Olivares stopped future lightweight champ Jose Luis Ramirez with a body shot, and he was a very hard man. Former flyweight king Salvatore Burruni opted out after being hurt by Olivares early.

As a fighter Olivares was a brilliant boxer puncher who could hit well with either hand. He was a terrific puncher, who could lead or counter, and once he had his man hurt he was merciless. Not undentable in the chin department, but a tough little guy.

I would say Olivares deserves to be in the top 75 boxers of all time. As Mexicans go, he's top 5 in my book.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Watch his fight with Lionel Rose, when Olivares won the bantam title. He was, if I remember correctly, 51-0 (49kos) at that point. He was also beating Arguello going into the 13th round when he got caught and stopped. At that point training wasn't necessarily a priority for Olivares but he was pretty smart, clever and always a good puncher.
I think that, on the night he beat Rose he could've beaten anybody I can think of, at that weight.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
One of the greatest bantamweights of all time. His destruction of the ace Lionel Rose is arguably his best performance at his best weight.

A notorious party animal led to some sub-par performances and a patchy looking ring record, but even past his best he outboxed Alexis Arguello for many rounds. Olivares could be hurt, but displayed resiliency to battle it out with big featherweight punchers past his peak, like Arguello, Chacon (who Ruben bested in a trilogy) and Danny Lopez. Held titles at 118 and 126 when there was no super bantamweight division.

Chucho Castillo, Rafael Herrera (beat Ruben twice), Lionel Rose, Jose Medal and Alan Rudkin were all bantamweights of the very highest order. Olivares stopped future lightweight champ Jose Luis Ramirez with a body shot, and he was a very hard man. Former flyweight king Salvatore Burruni opted out after being hurt by Olivares early.

As a fighter Olivares was a brilliant boxer puncher who could hit well with either hand. He was a terrific puncher, who could lead or counter, and once he had his man hurt he was merciless. Not undentable in the chin department, but a tough little guy.

I would say Olivares deserves to be in the top 75 boxers of all time. As Mexicans go, he's top 5 in my book.
Thanks nice analysis. I saw Ramirez take on Chavez, and while I don't remember it too well, I'm sure he took a lot of punishment in that fight. How good was his win over Bobby Chachon and did he perform well in a loss to Eusebio Pedroza (I've seen Pedroza a few times and like him). What tops him from getting into your top 50?
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
Watch his fight with Lionel Rose, when Olivares won the bantam title. He was, if I remember correctly, 51-0 (49kos) at that point. He was also beating Arguello going into the 13th round when he got caught and stopped. At that point training wasn't necessarily a priority for Olivares but he was pretty smart, clever and always a good puncher.
I think that, on the night he beat Rose he could've beaten anybody I can think of, at that weight.
Thats ridiculous. No matter how poor your opposition is (or the vast majority of it) that kind of consistency is special. Just some times the knockout doesen't happen and that KO ratio is a indicator of just how hard he hit.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Chacon wasn't the most dedicated or healthy at 126 either. But they had 3 fights and I felt Ruben won the first two handily (did he stop him in one of 'em...I can't remember)

I like Pedroza too, but I felt it was a very poor fight for the most part. Olivares looked well faded and Pedroza never really stepped out of first gear. Essentially there's better fights of both men you could watch.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Olivares is underrated in terms of his versatility. He loved to storm out there and wing hooks with both hands, body to head, until his opponent went down. If it took 2 rounds or 14 the approach was the same somewhere between a slugger and a swarmer.

However if Olivares found himself fighting someone too big and strong for that approach to work (which happened every once in a while as he got older) or a slick counterpuncher with a tight defense, El Puas was perfectly happy to shift gears and stick and move.

Basically if Joe Frazier was a bantamweight, with a better right hand, that could do a perfect imitation of Jimmy Ellis he would have been Ruben Olivares. And that's no knock on Frazier.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Olivares' mobile boxing was often awkward and ugly to watch imo.he wasn't that skilled in a classic stylist sort of way in that mode, but definitely did have a very effective unorthodox rhythm to it.

Quick feet and could plant to get maximum leverage in an instant.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

One of the very best bantams ever, you know my opinion of him.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly-Tough View Post
Thats ridiculous. No matter how poor your opposition is (or the vast majority of it) that kind of consistency is special. Just some times the knockout doesen't happen and that KO ratio is a indicator of just how hard he hit.
From 1966-1969 his record was...

69 10-0 (all knockouts)
68 13-0 (11 knockouts)
67 9-0-1 (8 knockouts)
66 13-0 (13 knockouts)

during this time he went 45-0-1, with a 93% KO ratio. he really deserves to be in the conversation for greatest puncher ever
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

1969 at bantam

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOl5aoDEq6Y[/ame]

1975 at feather

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heL1sGt9AyM&feature=related[/ame]
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Rubes a G
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

PT, Since your thread's about Olivares, thought ya might enjoy a short interview I did with him (with the help of an interpreter) in an L.A. bar a few years ago:

Olivares is more like a super middleweight now -- with the look of a man enjoying what he was deprived of during his fighting years. His Indian facial features are even more pronounced when he smiles, which he does easily and often, revealing a gleaming gold frame for his right front tooth.

Q: Ruben, tell me about your two losses to Rafael Herrera.

RO: The first time Rafael took the title away from me, I had trouble making weight, and the second time, he just beat me, fair and square.

Q: After your first loss to Bobby Chacon, what did you learn that allowed you to win the next two?

RO: Good preparation, because we went 15 rounds in those days. I studied Bobby Chacon's tapes. All three fights were very tough. Bobby Chacon is very brave...

Q: You're one of the hardest punchers that's ever stepped in the ring, how did he manage to take those?

RO: Chacon hit very hard also...He was very, very BRAVE...
And he seemed to be struggling to find an even stronger word. I volunteered, "cahones," and he rocked back with laughter, nodding his agreement. "You speak my language," he said, tapping me on the shoulder.

Q: Did you experience any dirty tactics from Pedroza?

RO: Yes, he would hit me with elbows. He was thumbing me in the eyes.

Q: Do you still have a bar? And is it going OK?

RO: I have a bar/restaurant and gym on the same lot, and I'm working with all the young kids from Tijuana.

Q: What do you think of the changes in the rules since you quit, and the new training methods?

RO: There's a lot of intermediate weight classes now. They fight 12 rounds. They make more money now. They fight 12 rounds but they get tired right away. They're missing the inner strength.

Q: How would you do against the current fighters?

RO: I respect them but I would handle them.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Quote:
Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
PT, Since your thread's about Olivares, thought ya might enjoy a short interview I did with him (with the help of an interpreter) in an L.A. bar a few years ago:

Olivares is more like a super middleweight now -- with the look of a man enjoying what he was deprived of during his fighting years. His Indian facial features are even more pronounced when he smiles, which he does easily and often, revealing a gleaming gold frame for his right front tooth.

Q: Ruben, tell me about your two losses to Rafael Herrera.

RO: The first time Rafael took the title away from me, I had trouble making weight, and the second time, he just beat me, fair and square.

Q: After your first loss to Bobby Chacon, what did you learn that allowed you to win the next two?

RO: Good preparation, because we went 15 rounds in those days. I studied Bobby Chacon's tapes. All three fights were very tough. Bobby Chacon is very brave...

Q: You're one of the hardest punchers that's ever stepped in the ring, how did he manage to take those?

RO: Chacon hit very hard also...He was very, very BRAVE...
And he seemed to be struggling to find an even stronger word. I volunteered, "cahones," and he rocked back with laughter, nodding his agreement. "You speak my language," he said, tapping me on the shoulder.

Q: Did you experience any dirty tactics from Pedroza?

RO: Yes, he would hit me with elbows. He was thumbing me in the eyes.

Q: Do you still have a bar? And is it going OK?

RO: I have a bar/restaurant and gym on the same lot, and I'm working with all the young kids from Tijuana.

Q: What do you think of the changes in the rules since you quit, and the new training methods?

RO: There's a lot of intermediate weight classes now. They fight 12 rounds. They make more money now. They fight 12 rounds but they get tired right away. They're missing the inner strength.

Q: How would you do against the current fighters?

RO: I respect them but I would handle them.
great tale thanks JG
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ruben Olivares

Quote:
Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
PT, Since your thread's about Olivares, thought ya might enjoy a short interview I did with him (with the help of an interpreter) in an L.A. bar a few years ago:

Olivares is more like a super middleweight now -- with the look of a man enjoying what he was deprived of during his fighting years. His Indian facial features are even more pronounced when he smiles, which he does easily and often, revealing a gleaming gold frame for his right front tooth.

Q: Ruben, tell me about your two losses to Rafael Herrera.

RO: The first time Rafael took the title away from me, I had trouble making weight, and the second time, he just beat me, fair and square.

Q: After your first loss to Bobby Chacon, what did you learn that allowed you to win the next two?

RO: Good preparation, because we went 15 rounds in those days. I studied Bobby Chacon's tapes. All three fights were very tough. Bobby Chacon is very brave...

Q: You're one of the hardest punchers that's ever stepped in the ring, how did he manage to take those?

RO: Chacon hit very hard also...He was very, very BRAVE...
And he seemed to be struggling to find an even stronger word. I volunteered, "cahones," and he rocked back with laughter, nodding his agreement. "You speak my language," he said, tapping me on the shoulder.

Q: Did you experience any dirty tactics from Pedroza?

RO: Yes, he would hit me with elbows. He was thumbing me in the eyes.

Q: Do you still have a bar? And is it going OK?

RO: I have a bar/restaurant and gym on the same lot, and I'm working with all the young kids from Tijuana.

Q: What do you think of the changes in the rules since you quit, and the new training methods?

RO: There's a lot of intermediate weight classes now. They fight 12 rounds. They make more money now. They fight 12 rounds but they get tired right away. They're missing the inner strength.

Q: How would you do against the current fighters?

RO: I respect them but I would handle them.
That is awesome.
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