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Old 06-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #31
RichC
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
feel would be to do with proprioception from the vestibular system and from muscles and joints throughout the body. Sensory input that helps you make minute adjustments to levels of muscle activation in response, providing balance and increased reaction times during dynamic movements without the input of the visual system.
Try it out while you're guarding someone in basketball, if you stand next to them and you try to react when you're watching them it's slower than if you're not looking at them but you have your hand resting on them and you react when they move. Feel is faster than vision, I imagine that's what Scrap would've been referring to. I don't understand the oral cavity stuff though.
Thanks mate.

I assumed that is what "feel" referred to. I was hoping for a link to a review summarising some of the evidence / ideas that have influenced Scrap's opinions.

Scrap is itching to let us in on the secret ...
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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Think we all do Mate, Its my 1st Love, dont tell the Wife.


Biomechanics is part of my degree. The lab report we had to do for it this years module was on a 60 meter sprint test. The exam was two hours long and some people were leaving after around 30-45 minutes looking white as ghosts
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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Thanks mate.

I assumed that is what "feel" referred to. I was hoping for a link to a review summarising some of the evidence / ideas that have influenced Scrap's opinions.

Scrap is itching to let us in on the secret ...
Funny , one day I decided to check Google out, to check what people thought on the subject. Only stuff I found was my stuff, was pissed off .Its really amazing Im told some of the of Proprioceptive that we are doing, I know of 3 Football Academys that are using the stuff. Great motorised routines, which the Kids love. Some Ill put up, other stuff can keep for a while. Got 30 routines. depending on the problem.
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyg6DHGda10[/ame]
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:06 PM   #35
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIOLYQtjnIQ[/ame]
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #36
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDTZLH0iGTg[/ame]
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:24 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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Did you get my PM
Yeah interesting contraption you've got there. I'm guessing it works by putting less stress on the body so only the minimal amount of fibres needed for the walking motion are sparked by the CNS, causing the the overactive synaptic connections to be weakened in the CP patient? With a lot of training in that manner it can be transferred to walking normally? You don't give away much, tell me where I've gone wrong haha
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:39 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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Thanks mate.

I assumed that is what "feel" referred to. I was hoping for a link to a review summarising some of the evidence / ideas that have influenced Scrap's opinions.

Scrap is itching to let us in on the secret ...
No dramas, I don't think it's too hard to find information on. Just look up things like the vestibular system, proprioception, visual input, afferent and efferent pathways and you'll get to understand it. It's not really opinion either, it's just how the body works. It's all to do with the CNS and how you learn, feedback and feedforward control.
Unfortunately or fortunately the experts in these fields work with people with muscular disorders ie. CP patients or performing studies and not much of the practical application is applied to training of elite athletes. Especially in a sport like boxing. It's all train hard day after day, you tend to go backwards in skills even though fitness might improve. Sometimes the softer more intelligent work is going to be far more beneficial for your game than a week of breaking your balls.
Guys like Mayweather have sort of stumbled across some of the more important training ideas though. Things like shadow boxing with his eyes closed, throwing short soft punches from constantly changing angles on the heavy bag - these things fine-tune the feedback. That's what allows him to be so precise, smooth and efficient.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:03 AM   #39
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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No dramas, I don't think it's too hard to find information on. Just look up things like the vestibular system, proprioception, visual input, afferent and efferent pathways and you'll get to understand it. It's not really opinion either, it's just how the body works. It's all to do with the CNS and how you learn, feedback and feedforward control.
Unfortunately or fortunately the experts in these fields work with people with muscular disorders ie. CP patients or performing studies and not much of the practical application is applied to training of elite athletes. Especially in a sport like boxing. It's all train hard day after day, you tend to go backwards in skills even though fitness might improve. Sometimes the softer more intelligent work is going to be far more beneficial for your game than a week of breaking your balls.
Guys like Mayweather have sort of stumbled across some of the more important training ideas though. Things like shadow boxing with his eyes closed, throwing short soft punches from constantly changing angles on the heavy bag - these things fine-tune the feedback. That's what allows him to be so precise, smooth and efficient.
Great Post, which works Best, the Slap or the Tickle'
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:21 AM   #40
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
No dramas, I don't think it's too hard to find information on. Just look up things like the vestibular system, proprioception, visual input, afferent and efferent pathways and you'll get to understand it. It's not really opinion either, it's just how the body works. It's all to do with the CNS and how you learn, feedback and feedforward control.
Unfortunately or fortunately the experts in these fields work with people with muscular disorders ie. CP patients or performing studies and not much of the practical application is applied to training of elite athletes. Especially in a sport like boxing. It's all train hard day after day, you tend to go backwards in skills even though fitness might improve. Sometimes the softer more intelligent work is going to be far more beneficial for your game than a week of breaking your balls.
Guys like Mayweather have sort of stumbled across some of the more important training ideas though. Things like shadow boxing with his eyes closed, throwing short soft punches from constantly changing angles on the heavy bag - these things fine-tune the feedback. That's what allows him to be so precise, smooth and efficient.
Superb point.
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:02 AM   #41
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

ok, I understand shadow boxing with the eyes closed and can see how that benefoits training.

less so the short punches on the bag.

does anyone have a video to demonstrate?
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:06 AM   #42
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

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ok, I understand shadow boxing with the eyes closed and can see how that benefoits training.

less so the short punches on the bag.

does anyone have a video to demonstrate?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1eRBq3p2g[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciqkf7XN4SA[/ame]
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:51 AM   #43
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

Anybody can improve their punching power through training and technique. But some people genetically have more potential, punching involves speed, power, strength, co- ordination....These are all fitness compoenents.

Somebody who is genetically a better athlete that somebody is not as gifted.ifnalways going to hit harder than the less physically gifted person, even if they train.....

It's just the same in any sports. Some people may never be olympic swimmers, Olympic sprinters, no matter how much they train but..? They can sure as hell improve and progress their own ability.

Of course technique is involved aswell, that's one of the most retarded suggestions I have ever seen.

Not surprised anyway, it's a boxing forum..
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:08 AM   #44
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

To understand it to the Full, is to understand the Roll the eyes play in all this. Plus how important a Good Stretch routine is critical to evolve Skills. I think its Paramount to improve ones ability.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:52 AM   #45
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Default Re: Is power and speed really genetics or is technique involved?

This is really simple.

You add your genetic advantages to your level of training.

If someone has a genetics of 3 in that sport, but trains at a level of 10, for a total of 13, and he goes in against someone with genetics of 6 but with a training level of 5, the first guys gonna win.

A guy who is genetically a 10 but hasn't trained (0), can easily lose to someone half his ability (5) but with a training level of 8.

It's combination of the two, not one over the other. One is not more important than the other. However, it two individuals are trained at the same level, everything else being equal, the one with the better genetics will always win. Likewise, if two genetically exact athletes compete, everything else being equal, the one that has better training will always win.
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