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Old 06-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #16
McGrain
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Yeah, taking Liston's worst ever performance in the world title fight most widely believed to be fixed and adding one one of Marciano's peak performances as for comparison is obviously a bit silly.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Interesting matchup. The quitter vs the winner.
..the quiter is also a frontrunner.lets see dont you know in fantasy fights rocky goes 2-35..guys that weight almost the same fight night like bute who has to much speed and power or froch to tough and huge reach beats rocky also..
rocky does beat alan green but he has to come from behind to do that.look dont you realize that liston had power of mythical bibical proportions and rocky had a skill level 3 notches below two ton tony galento.rockys power will toughness determination conditiong work rate etc etc is just a figment of the immagination of his highly bias and preduidice ignorant fans.how dare any of his fans to think he stands a chance against anyone in fantasy matchups since hes at least 30 pounds or more lighter..a matchup with floyd is fairer but lets see naw.floyds defence footwork counterpunching gives floyd a 15 rd ud.everybody knows that...rocky does have a chance against jean pierre coopman perhaps.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali_ View Post
You cant compare the 'phantom punch' to the SuzieQ.

They existed in completely two different spheres of ring action.

Ali's 'Phantom Punch' was on display against Sonny Liston in their second fight with Ali defending the heavyweight title.

Sonny Liston comes forward and gets caught by a near instant punch right on his left temple. Liston goes down doesn't beat the count. KO.
People thought the punch didn't even happen cause it was so fast.

'It's a fix!' 'Liston quit!' 'My butthurt!' they say...

(Ali was just pup then)

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Look at that wave of muscle reaction in Ali's chest muscles.


Rocky Marcianos's famous 'SuzieQ' was a short right punch that was devastating..to an

old man in the 13th round.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
This is the first time I've seen/heard/read somebody try to sell Ali's 'anchor punch' aginst Liston as superior, or even comparable, to Marciano's punch that kayoed Walcott, and I've at various times followed, watched, read about, competed and coached boxing for some 40 years...this is far fetched revisionism (actually spin) of the highest order, in my opinion.

Then I saw the username of the poster and all became clear...
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali_ View Post
Liston's heart only came into question against the Greatest Boxer to have ever lived, who would also go on to KO him..

After his two Ali fights, Liston would go on to fight 16-1 his last fight and victory being 1970 against Chuck Wepner.

Marciano ain't no Ali.

Prime for Prime Liston vs Marciano has blood written all over it and pick Liston by KO.
Need I say more...mainstream cliche opinion...imo, of course...
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Mr. Ali,,,,,

I don't think you should use the 'Phantom Punch' as a 'barometer' to determine this
bout.
'
Sonny was 'out-on-his-feet' from the 'J & B Scotch' he had been swizzling for the
previous 4-weeks at his training facility, at the Poland House in Maine.

That my friend, is a FACT.

Now, lets just try to figure out a date, when Sonny Liston was at his 'prime physical best'.
Since he was born in May 1927, I would say the 1959 Sonny was at his physical peak, strength
wise.
Actually Senor PePe I wasn't using it as a measure for how Liston would peform vs Marciano


Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyJim View Post
If Sonny was felled by the..."phantom punch"...up in Maine in 1965...what happens when
The Rock lands the "Suzie Q"?...
^is what I was responding to before.


If you want to look around 59 for Liston he was beating up 'Big Cat' Cleveland Williams.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmar5143 View Post
..the quiter is also a frontrunner.lets see dont you know in fantasy fights rocky goes 2-35..guys that weight almost the same fight night like bute who has to much speed and power or froch to tough and huge reach beats rocky also..
Amir Khan would take Rocky to school

Maybe he beats the unskilled fraud Pacman. Its a toss up.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb) View Post
This is the first time I've seen/heard/read somebody try to sell Ali's 'anchor punch' aginst Liston as superior, or even comparable, to Marciano's punch that kayoed Walcott, and I've at various times followed, watched, read about, competed and coached boxing for some 40 years...this is far fetched revisionism (actually spin) of the highest order, in my opinion.

Then I saw the username of the poster and all became clear...

Seeing as how you seem to have enjoyed your boxing experience in England of all places I can understand your sentiment.

check your term's aswell, 'revisionism' and 'spinning' do not apply here.
Both punches are infamous and both punches scored resulted in wins for their respective fighters.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:24 PM   #23
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mongoose View Post
Amir Khan would take Rocky to school

Maybe he beats the unskilled fraud Pacman. Its a toss up.
Have you seen Rocky actually fight?
Rocky would never land a hand on Pacman.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

LIston is so overated, and hate for marciano so obvious. Like lIston, Marciano beat top contenders and good fighters on way to tile. Unlike Liston, he won and held title. Unlike Liston, he beat Walcott in bout where he fought middle rounds almost blind due to foreign substance in eyes, and hung on for win. Liston has a Greb/Langford mystique about him,
especiallly cause ofhis death while still active, rumors about death, and he thrown bouts to Ali.

For those focused on size difference: It ain't much, and Marty Marshall, a lightheavyweight , broke Liston's jaw in win over Sonny, and knocked him down in losing effort during rematch.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali_ View Post
Seeing as how you seem to have enjoyed your boxing experience in England of all places I can understand your sentiment.

check your term's aswell, 'revisionism' and 'spinning' do not apply here.
Both punches are infamous and both punches scored resulted in wins for their respective fighters.
Hmmmmm...is that a tinge of cliche racism, pre-judging, or merely a generalisation I detect there?

My terms...do apply here, imo. Revisionism because it's a view I've never heard in merry old England, nor in any of the media I've read over the timeframe I've described...I've actually read and listened to opinions from outside merry old England too. Spin applies imo because you are desperate to justify your man Ali's second controversial win over Liston.

In my opinion, the 'anchor punch' is infamous...Marciano's kayo of Walcott anything but...
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali_ View Post
Have you seen Rocky actually fight?
Rocky would never land a hand on Pacman.
I actually feel quite embarrassed now, this guy's a troll and I had to read more than one of his/her posts to realise...

This is to my eternal shame...
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali_ View Post
Have you seen Rocky actually fight?
Rocky would never land a hand on Pacman.
boxing disgussions are fine but when total ignorance prevails thats another thing..by the way knocking out cleve williams isnt a big feat.williams was one of the most overated fighters ever.before liston he got koed by bob satterfield who had a glass jaw also. and weighted about 175 pounds.before liston some stiff who at that time was koed 6 times went 10 rounds twice with williams..the big cat was good at koing ham and eggers when he fought top guys he got koed.twice by mac foster.got beat by chuvalo.he barely beat a slipping eddie matchen in one of the most boring fights ever.he lost to earnie terrell in a boring fight.his claim to fame is he had two shootouts with liston and got koed both times.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:55 PM   #28
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
LIston is so overated, and hate for marciano so obvious. Like lIston, Marciano beat top contenders and good fighters on way to tile. Unlike Liston, he won and held title. Unlike Liston, he beat Walcott in bout where he fought middle rounds almost blind due to foreign substance in eyes, and hung on for win. Liston has a Greb/Langford mystique about him,
especiallly cause ofhis death while still active, rumors about death, and he thrown bouts to Ali.

For those focused on size difference: It ain't much, and Marty Marshall, a lightheavyweight , broke Liston's jaw in win over Sonny, and knocked him down in losing effort during rematch.
Problems with your post.
1. Marciano didn't fight near the competition of Liston or serious fighters in their prime like Liston. That should be a given.

2. @ 50-4 loses (2 to Ali) Liston doesn't have a mystique that is unwarranted especially inside the ring.

3. Marty managed to break Liston's jaw and still not KO him in their first match early on in Listons career. Liston goes onto KO and UD him afterward.

None of this has to do with the fact that Marciano as a fighter doesn't even make Liston bat an eye coming to the fight let alone in the fight. Liston's reach, power and weight help him beat Rocky.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Obviously two great fighters. However I think it is simply outrageous to consider Rocky being KO'd here. What truly great fighter who fought back did Liston ever knock out?

This is a tough fight.

resume for resume there is no comparison. Listons top wins are folley, machen, harris and patterson All of whom had been KOd at world level before. Patterson was awful both times and was about as ready to fight as Michael Spinks was against Tyson. PSYCHED OUT.

tactically Marciano would be awful for Liston. Rocky did not get hit at range on the way in all that much and inside he climbs all over Liston. rocky was so much more side on (so the liston uppercut wont work so well)and his low bending below the waist really prevented better boxers than liston from landing a full sequence of hits on him.

Marcinao would get hurt but he wont quit. this is a tougher fight than Liston ever survived. its not easy for rocky but hes not getting knocked out.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Liston vs Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali_ View Post
Have you seen Rocky actually fight?
Rocky would never land a hand on Pacman.
Have you seen Pacman actually fight?

He wouldn't land on Rocky..the fight would be a stalemate. Like two retards getting pointed in a directio nand swinging at air for 12 rounds..

i smartz than emanuel steward, tak ethe test, manny, i know the sport of box
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