Liston and Marciano

[luke]

Trade opponents,


Rocky Marciano vs

Mike DeJohn
Cleveland Williams X 2
Nino Valdes
Willi Besmanoff
Roy Harris
Zora Folley
Eddie Machen
Floyd Patterson X 2


Sonny Liston vs

Harry Mathews
Jersey Joe Wlacott X 2
Roland La Starza
Ezzard Charles X 2
Archie Moore
Rex Layne
Joe Louis
Don ****ell

[janitor]

They would probably both have a clean sweep.

[BillB]

Originally Posted by luke

Trade opponents,


Rocky Marciano vs

Mike DeJohn
Cleveland Williams X 2
Nino Valdes
Willi Besmanoff
Roy Harris
Zora Folley
Eddie Machen
Floyd Patterson X 2


Sonny Liston vs

Harry Mathews
Jersey Joe Wlacott X 2
Roland La Starza
Ezzard Charles X 2
Archie Moore
Rex Layne
Joe Louis
Don ****ell

It was La Starza X 2, for what it's worth. La Starza I came closer to beating Rocky that anyone did.

[choklab]

A better question is which Liston opponent gets a clean sweep over marciano guys? I would favour charles, walcott and moore over all of Listons guys but cant think of a single dude on Listons resume that could do that to rockys guys.

[luke]

Originally Posted by BillB

It was La Starza X 2, for what it's worth. La Starza I came closer to beating Rocky that anyone did.

Wow have You seen the first La Starza fight?

as for fighting him twice, i dont think he would last the first fight with sonny, so i had ezzard and walcott X2 better overall fighters.

[luke]

Originally Posted by choklab

A better question is which Liston opponent gets a clean sweep over marciano guys? I would favour charles, walcott and moore over all of Listons guys but cant think of a single dude on Listons resume that could do that to rockys guys.

I see Williams giving hell to just about anyone on that list, I also see Zora beating Charles, and Charles is the best bet of beating Liston on that list, I see Machen and Harris as tough opposition for anyone on Marcianos list, and I think Moore would get bulldozed by Liston.

[choklab]

Originally Posted by luke

I see Williams giving hell to just about anyone on that list

I think you need more research. Williams did not pan out as a contender. He looked the part and was a destroyer of tomato cans, exciting big and brave but he fell way short at world level. The guys he beat everyone could beat. Anyone else beat him. Williams was a brave loser when ever he stepped up at all. Archie moore and Walcott would have put him through the canvas. Williams never saw shots coming from better fighters and never slipped a punch in his life.

Originally Posted by luke

, I also see Zora beating Charles, and Charles is the best bet of beating Liston on that list,

Because zorra beat henry cooper? Cooper also beat zora. In fact folley did not do well in Europe at all. Young jack Johnson broke folleys ribs and had him quit. Lavorante knocked zora out then archie moore (old as he was by the 1960s!) knocked out lavorante. . Folley was a nice boxer. An elite heavyweight but he was not on Charles’s level. Untill he was way over the hill Charles was not losing to anybody who beat folley. Another class.
　

Originally Posted by luke

I see Machen and Harris as tough opposition for anyone on Marcianos list,

HARRIS?? I dont see harris getting past Don ****ell to be honest. Layne would have knocked him out and lastarza would have schooled him and thats before we get onto the champions marciano fought including faded joe LOUIS.

Machen was a handfull …but not for ingo Johansson. Sure machen was hard to beat, he was also hard for Liston to beat so yes, hard for anyone to beat. I cant back him against world champions like Walcott, moore and Charles but like folley he beats most others of marcianos guys even if Layne and lastarza could be tricky for him.
　
　

Originally Posted by luke

and I think Moore would get bulldozed by Liston.

Liston has a good shot of doing this for sure but moore knocked out a lot of big heavyweights - he was no slouch as a heavyweight. He Kod big bob baker, alzandro lavorante. A faded Archie Moore knocked out Whitehurst and King whom Liston also fought. I would still favour Liston over Moore but sonny had better be ready. The question I asked was not what Liston could do to marcianos guys but what could Listons guys do against rockys best ones.Nobody gets a clean sweep on Listons list.