Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles

McGrain · 07-06-2007, 06:03 PM

Rate these wins out of ten where 10 is Frazier's win over Ali and 0 is...rubbish.

Are you particularly impressed with these wins?

Why or why not?

Rocky's best wins?

Dempsey1238 · 07-06-2007, 08:48 PM

Walcott, Charles 1 AND 2 and Moore were the Rock's BEST wins imo. I give the wins a ten. Charles was not shot yet, and was impressive with back to back kos over Wallace and Shatterfiled. Also he was robbed vs Johnson. a great win for the Rock. Not as good as Fraizer's win over Ali. But a level or so behind it. But its the Rock's combine wins imo, over Walcott, Moore and Charles that gives the Rock the edge in all time ranking imo.

Joe E · 07-06-2007, 09:01 PM

walcott 1,charles1 and 2 are definite 10s as is frazier, ali 1.joe should have gotten himself a couple paydays and retired .

Robbi · 07-06-2007, 09:19 PM

These must considered among Marciano's greatest wins. Charles was a skilled operator, even though not a natural heavyweight. Marciano doesn't have a win on his record against a young dangerous full blown heavyweight near his prime.

Impressive, but nothing like Ali toppling Foreman in the Jungle.

Jupiter1610 · 07-06-2007, 09:30 PM

10s? Really 10s? His wins over Charles are good but certainly not of the level of Frazier's win over Ali. Not even close. Ali was past his prime (but still undefeated) yet went on for many more years of very impressive fights, including victories over top ATGs. Charles was still an impressive fighter but roughly five years past his best. He had begun to lose to opponents that he previously dominated and is said to have lost much of his former sharpness. After his fights with Marciano he truly slid. I think that Charles is Marciano's best opponent. But as far as the difficultly/significance of a title defense it is no were near Ali/Frazier I. I would give it a 6.

Dempsey1238 · 07-06-2007, 09:52 PM

Outside of Walcott, Valez was the ONLY one that have defeated Charles at the time. No I do not count the lost to Johnson and Layne as they were just out right robberys. A big miscarry of justice in both fights. Charles was still NEAR or in his prime going into the first bout.

Marciano Frazier · 07-06-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Rate these wins out of ten where 10 is Frazier's win over Ali and 0 is...rubbish.

Are you particularly impressed with these wins?

Why or why not?

Rocky's best wins?

I would say the first fight was about an 8.5, and the rematch maybe a 7.5. My reasoning: although Charles was a little on the downside of his career at the time of their first fight, he was, by all accounts, hyper-motivated and trained and fought with an intensity and hunger he had never shown before- he fought 15 straight rounds without once having to be separated from a clinch and put on a virtually inhuman display of determination and stamina, causing many observers to proclaim it one of the greatest, if not the greatest performance of Charles' career. But as tough, as tenacious, as tremendously resilient and tireless as Charles was that night, Marciano was moreso, even on a whole nother level. Watch him go like a buzzsaw in the 15th round and throw over 90 punches, and try to honestly tell me he wasn't the best-conditioned, most determined and most relentless champion in the history of the heavyweight division.
The rematch I grade a little lower, even though Marciano was much more dominant(he won nearly every round and was only in jeopardy because of a freak-of-nature one-in-a-million injury which was likely the result of an elbow), because Charles just wasn't the same man anymore after that first fight.

But I would rank the first Walcott fight on par with or slightly ahead of the first Charles fight, and the Moore fight probably as high as the second Charles fight.

Hank · 07-07-2007, 01:55 AM

In th eWalcott fight he was blinded by substance in his eyes, and was getting nailed with shots he could not see. He still stayed in it, and won against great figher. In 2nd Charles fight, he had to ko a great boxer in less than one round (8th) due to split nose--he did it.
In first Charles fight, Charles, for whatever reason, let it all hang out, went crazy with punches, which he had stopped doing after killing a fighter years earlier. Marciano still won.

Mendoza · 07-07-2007, 06:53 AM

When Rocky retired he said the first Walcott fight was his toughest.
Rocky wasn't supposed to win according to the fight experts of the time.

Rocky was down in the first round of the fight. He was cut, and virtually blinded for 1-2 rounds in the middle of the fight. Walcott had Rocky hurt and holding on in round 11. Rocky was down by about 3-4 points at the end of round 12.. He needed a knockout to win. Most fighters would have mentally folded by now, but Rocky wasn’t most fighters. In the 13th round Rocky caught Walcott near the ropes, and landed his Suzy-Q to score a dramatic come from behind knockout.

Walcott felt Rocky was a bum before the fight and said he would retire if he couldn't beat Marciano. He did.

Bummy Davis · 07-07-2007, 07:17 AM

Walcott could box but he could also punch with either hand, I think Walcott on the night he gave Marciano the title shot was a fighter who would have given any fighter in history a nightmare, the win was a 10 for Rocky, Charles was an 9 and Moore was a 10 at that point in his carreer on a long win streak vs the best in the 175 - heavyweights KO's over Baker and Johnson and 2 wins over Valdez

07-06-2007, 06:03 PM	#1
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 34,759 vCash: 1000	Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles Rate these wins out of ten where 10 is Frazier's win over Ali and 0 is...rubbish. Are you particularly impressed with these wins? Why or why not? Rocky's best wins?
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07-06-2007, 08:48 PM	#2
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles Walcott, Charles 1 AND 2 and Moore were the Rock's BEST wins imo. I give the wins a ten. Charles was not shot yet, and was impressive with back to back kos over Wallace and Shatterfiled. Also he was robbed vs Johnson. a great win for the Rock. Not as good as Fraizer's win over Ali. But a level or so behind it. But its the Rock's combine wins imo, over Walcott, Moore and Charles that gives the Rock the edge in all time ranking imo.
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07-06-2007, 09:01 PM	#3
Joe E Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Detroit,Mi. Posts: 1,115 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles walcott 1,charles1 and 2 are definite 10s as is frazier, ali 1.joe should have gotten himself a couple paydays and retired .
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07-06-2007, 09:19 PM	#4
Robbi Marvelous East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: UK Posts: 7,549 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles These must considered among Marciano's greatest wins. Charles was a skilled operator, even though not a natural heavyweight. Marciano doesn't have a win on his record against a young dangerous full blown heavyweight near his prime. Impressive, but nothing like Ali toppling Foreman in the Jungle.
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07-06-2007, 09:30 PM	#5
Jupiter1610 newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 25 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles 10s? Really 10s? His wins over Charles are good but certainly not of the level of Frazier's win over Ali. Not even close. Ali was past his prime (but still undefeated) yet went on for many more years of very impressive fights, including victories over top ATGs. Charles was still an impressive fighter but roughly five years past his best. He had begun to lose to opponents that he previously dominated and is said to have lost much of his former sharpness. After his fights with Marciano he truly slid. I think that Charles is Marciano's best opponent. But as far as the difficultly/significance of a title defense it is no were near Ali/Frazier I. I would give it a 6.
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07-06-2007, 09:52 PM	#6
Dempsey1238 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,956 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles Outside of Walcott, Valez was the ONLY one that have defeated Charles at the time. No I do not count the lost to Johnson and Layne as they were just out right robberys. A big miscarry of justice in both fights. Charles was still NEAR or in his prime going into the first bout.
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07-07-2007, 01:55 AM	#8
Hank Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,232 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles In th eWalcott fight he was blinded by substance in his eyes, and was getting nailed with shots he could not see. He still stayed in it, and won against great figher. In 2nd Charles fight, he had to ko a great boxer in less than one round (8th) due to split nose--he did it. In first Charles fight, Charles, for whatever reason, let it all hang out, went crazy with punches, which he had stopped doing after killing a fighter years earlier. Marciano still won.
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07-07-2007, 06:53 AM	#9
Mendoza Dominating a decade East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 12,779 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles When Rocky retired he said the first Walcott fight was his toughest. Rocky wasn't supposed to win according to the fight experts of the time. Rocky was down in the first round of the fight. He was cut, and virtually blinded for 1-2 rounds in the middle of the fight. Walcott had Rocky hurt and holding on in round 11. Rocky was down by about 3-4 points at the end of round 12.. He needed a knockout to win. Most fighters would have mentally folded by now, but Rocky wasn’t most fighters. In the 13th round Rocky caught Walcott near the ropes, and landed his Suzy-Q to score a dramatic come from behind knockout. Walcott felt Rocky was a bum before the fight and said he would retire if he couldn't beat Marciano. He did.
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07-07-2007, 07:17 AM	#10
Bummy Davis Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,239 vCash: 1000	Re: Marciano's Wins v Ezzard Charles Walcott could box but he could also punch with either hand, I think Walcott on the night he gave Marciano the title shot was a fighter who would have given any fighter in history a nightmare, the win was a 10 for Rocky, Charles was an 9 and Moore was a 10 at that point in his carreer on a long win streak vs the best in the 175 - heavyweights KO's over Baker and Johnson and 2 wins over Valdez
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