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View Poll Results: Removing emotion and 24 hours later - how do you view the decision?
Absolutely horrid decision, I agree with HBO/ESPN/et all - 119-109 18 23.68%
Terrible Decision, Pacquaio decisively won (117-111/116-112) 34 44.74%
Bad Decision, Close Fight but Pacquaio did enough to win it (115-113, 116-112) 9 11.84%
Close Fight, Both Fighters had moments, could have been a draw (114-114) 15 19.74%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-11-2012, 05:10 AM   #16
jeromejones
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Default Re: Removing the emotion from this... is this as horrible a decision as people make o

I seriously dont think it is. A lt of people and fake ass celebrities perpetuating the notion that it was a shutout and utter destruction. it was uite a tough fight.. If you look at the fight as a whole, pacquaio thoroughly deserves the win as he was the only one who had big moments in the fight and looked dominant while tim was backing up.
If you judge the rounds individually, you can make a case for bradley.
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:28 AM   #17
PugilisticPower
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Default Re: Removing the emotion from this... is this as horrible a decision as people make o

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
The thing is Pac win his rounds far more conclusively than Bradley. The tale of the fight happened basically like this. Pac won 6 of the middle rounds rather clearly. The other 6 rounds are close rounds. I would say 2 of those rounds were definitely Bradley rounds. The other 4 were rather close. Now if you can find it in your heart to swing those 6 rounds to Bradley then he earns a draw. That's conceivable, and if one judge scored the fight this way I would not crucify them on a cross. This is why we have three judges, though. Pac won and should have won according to the majority of the judges. Two out of the three judges finding Bradley winning seven of the twelve rounds is outrageous.

For those curious, in my opinion the close rounds that Pac didn't clearly win are 1, 2, 8, 10, 11, 12. I thought Bradley pretty confidently won round 10 & 12. I would also give Bradley round 1 and 11. Round 2 & 8 were probably the closest and toughest rounds to score. The 2nd time I watched the fight I still scored it a draw (With a different RBR than the first time) but when I watched it again on the big screen instead of the laptop in HD I found that Bradley won round two rounds clear and the rest were close. I could score him rounds 1, 8, and 11. But in no way Pac lost the fight. Pac basically swept 3-7 and definitely won round 9.

To compare it to the Marquez-Pac III. I probably had that in the 8-4 range, but there were more swing rounds. Marquez won his rounds more clearly and more often but if you swung every swing round to Pac you could give him a 7-5 win and nearly all the swing rounds he would get a draw. I do not think he deserves such and would expect the majority of the judges to get it right. Marquez won some of those close rounds, and won more definitive rounds which is why he clearly won. Maybe the 10 point system needs to be addressed. I don't think it's the issue, I think the judging is just atrocious.
Problem is, you don't score a "fight" - you score round by round, so if a fighter goes quiet in a number of rounds and the other fighter is more active, even if he's not as effective and even if he's dominated in the rounds he loses, you open yourself up to lose this sort of decision.

Look no further than Bernard Hopkins as a guy who looked beautiful in 2-3 rounds against Calzaghe and in 3-4 rounds against Jermain Taylor but ultimately lazy across the other rounds and therefore gave away the decision.

It's not about who wins their rounds with the most dominance, if Pacquaio was that dominant he'd have dropped Bradley and got himself the 10-8 rounds that would stack up against Pacquaio. With exception to maybe the fourth round, where Pacquaio rocked Bradley quite badly, I don't recall any stage in the fight where I thought Bradley was about to be knocked down, let alone knocked out - his face after the fight when compared against any fighter who has recently fought Pacquaio (ODLH, Margarito, Cotto, Marquez) also tells a story that maybe Pacquaio wasn't landing cleanly on Bradley.

The ten point must system is meant to make fighters fight every single round in a fight, knowing that no such thing as a drawn round exists (in most judges scorecards)

While a 116-112 scorecard can be clear and decisive, in the case when there are two swing rounds that could go the other way, it's not clear and decisive. For all the vitriol and emotion surrounding this, I don't feel Pacquaio was a dominant 116-112 winner, just a guy who probably did enough to get the 116-112.

Forgetting what the judges scored, because giving Round 5 to Bradley is a ****ing joke.... I wouldn't hold it against a judge if they scored 1, 2, 9, 10, 11, 12 to Bradley and swung either Round 3 or Round 8 against Pacquaio based on activity for Bradley and a lack of dominance evident in say 4, 5, 6 and 7 in favour of Pacquaio. I'd actually go back on you scoring it a decisive Round 9 performance for Pacquaio and ask you to watch it again, Bradley does some of his best work in that round, lands a lot of punches to the body and to the head and often presses Pacquaio back after each flurry. I felt Round 9 was what gave Bradley the confidence going into 10, 11 and 12 because before that, I had a feeling he was just going through the motions and then he picked his game back up.

Therefore I -can- see how someone could feasibly get to a 115-113 result for Bradley. It's not the result I give because I think Pacquaio made the action in Round 3 and Round 8 and like I say, I also gave him swing rounds in 2 and 9.... but ultimately, this isn't the highway robbery people are making out

I think someone else summed it up best. Unofficially, Pacquaio is 1-1 in his last two fights. Officially, he's also 1-1 in his last two fights, just a shame the wrong guy got the W. I call this a bad decision due to it going in favour of a guy who at best should have got a draw, but I wouldn't have called a draw a bad decision on the basis of the fight.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:24 AM   #18
StreetsofRAGE
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Default Re: Removing the emotion from this... is this as horrible a decision as people make o

Close fight. I gave Bradley rounds 1,2,8,10,11,12 after watching it live, which would have been a draw. And I can see how a judge would give round 9 to Bradley as well. That would make it 7-5 Bradley -- what 2 of the judges got, despite picking different rounds.

It was a little off, but Pac or his fans have no right to say it was a robbery. It was a close fight that the judges saw differently than most fans and the media. Not a robbery.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: Removing the emotion from this... is this as horrible a decision as people make o

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Originally Posted by godlikerich View Post
116-112 is still a clear and decisive victory. I think giving Bradley 4 rounds is generous so I don't think a draw would have been reasonable. I've watched the fight without HBO commentary and I still struggle to score it anything but 117-111 Pacquiao. Yes Bradley was busier some rounds but he wasn't effective more than about 3. Effective aggression went to Pacquiao by a country mile in nearly every round and therefore he clearly won the fight. This is the complete reverse of Pacquiao's last fight where I believe he lost to Marquez - Pacquiao was busier in that fight but Marquez landed the more effective shots and so should have won the fight.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: Removing the emotion from this... is this as horrible a decision as people make o

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Originally Posted by king khan View Post
I watched it again. . . 117-111 is the right score. . . same as i had the first time.

Bradley won rounds 2 (for sure his best round of hte fight), and rounds 10, and 12 simply because Pacquiao took it easy.
Funny I had Bradley winning round 1 so there is a case Bradley could have won the first 2 rounds of the fight and also won the last 2 rounds of the fight that already 4 rounds. He just needs to find 2 more for a draw.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #21
ALG United
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Default Re: Removing the emotion from this... is this as horrible a decision as people make o

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Originally Posted by PugilisticPower View Post
Problem is, you don't score a "fight" - you score round by round, so if a fighter goes quiet in a number of rounds and the other fighter is more active, even if he's not as effective and even if he's dominated in the rounds he loses, you open yourself up to lose this sort of decision.

Look no further than Bernard Hopkins as a guy who looked beautiful in 2-3 rounds against Calzaghe and in 3-4 rounds against Jermain Taylor but ultimately lazy across the other rounds and therefore gave away the decision.

It's not about who wins their rounds with the most dominance, if Pacquaio was that dominant he'd have dropped Bradley and got himself the 10-8 rounds that would stack up against Pacquaio. With exception to maybe the fourth round, where Pacquaio rocked Bradley quite badly, I don't recall any stage in the fight where I thought Bradley was about to be knocked down, let alone knocked out - his face after the fight when compared against any fighter who has recently fought Pacquaio (ODLH, Margarito, Cotto, Marquez) also tells a story that maybe Pacquaio wasn't landing cleanly on Bradley.

The ten point must system is meant to make fighters fight every single round in a fight, knowing that no such thing as a drawn round exists (in most judges scorecards)

While a 116-112 scorecard can be clear and decisive, in the case when there are two swing rounds that could go the other way, it's not clear and decisive. For all the vitriol and emotion surrounding this, I don't feel Pacquaio was a dominant 116-112 winner, just a guy who probably did enough to get the 116-112.

Forgetting what the judges scored, because giving Round 5 to Bradley is a ****ing joke.... I wouldn't hold it against a judge if they scored 1, 2, 9, 10, 11, 12 to Bradley and swung either Round 3 or Round 8 against Pacquaio based on activity for Bradley and a lack of dominance evident in say 4, 5, 6 and 7 in favour of Pacquaio. I'd actually go back on you scoring it a decisive Round 9 performance for Pacquaio and ask you to watch it again, Bradley does some of his best work in that round, lands a lot of punches to the body and to the head and often presses Pacquaio back after each flurry. I felt Round 9 was what gave Bradley the confidence going into 10, 11 and 12 because before that, I had a feeling he was just going through the motions and then he picked his game back up.

Therefore I -can- see how someone could feasibly get to a 115-113 result for Bradley. It's not the result I give because I think Pacquaio made the action in Round 3 and Round 8 and like I say, I also gave him swing rounds in 2 and 9.... but ultimately, this isn't the highway robbery people are making out

I think someone else summed it up best. Unofficially, Pacquaio is 1-1 in his last two fights. Officially, he's also 1-1 in his last two fights, just a shame the wrong guy got the W. I call this a bad decision due to it going in favour of a guy who at best should have got a draw, but I wouldn't have called a draw a bad decision on the basis of the fight.
Nope, i disagree... Bradley was just a busy boxer but never was effective, he hit a lot of gloves, arms and shoulder majority of the fight... I think Manny is a victim of his past reputation, those swing rounds were you can score either way, tilted towards Manny's opponent most of the time because Manny failed to dominate him completely.. We, the judges, the fans and everybody else, were all so used to Manny obliterating his opponent that if Manny just decided to only fight for points, he will surely loose those rounds in our eyes... Case in point are the rounds were Manny took his foot of the gas, like rounds 10, 11 and 12, yes Timmy was busier, BUT Manny didn't stand still in those rounds either, Timmy was punching air most of the time, He threw double punch/jabs to the air the entire fight for christ sake in hope of keeping Manny out of harms range, Bradley threw a total of 449 jabs the entire fight and got in only 51 (11 percent), and most of that jabs were thrown in the last three rounds.... I know the busier the boxer, the more it should impress the judges, but it should also somehow connect with his opponent... You gave an example of Calzaghe winning more rounds against Hopkins because of sheer work rate, but Calzaghe as feather fisted as he is, atleast connected on Hopkins with his pitty-pat punches...
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