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Old 07-06-2007, 06:31 PM   #1
mcvey
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Default ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Replace Louis with Ali for The Bombers title reign.
What changes do you see?
Ali defends against the same opponents,whatresults would change?
Would Ali be unbeaten?
Which wins do you think would be more emphatic?
Which fights would be harder?
Which easier?
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

I think he could be unbeaten here, he'd be bigger, faster and stronger than most of the heavyweights and the quality wouldnt be there to trouble him. I dont think there was an effective pressure fighter as good as Frazier to trouble him. BUT he wouldnt have as good a legacy because of this.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:40 PM   #3
McGrain
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Good question!

Green Ali v Schmeling would be very interesting. VERY interesting, but I would pick green Ali to win it nontheless.

The Max Baer fight would be harder for him. Baer would be a live wire the entire time he was in there - the later rounds v Baer would be the cricial ones for Ali I feel, and there'd probably be a rematch to boot. It's possible that Baer could beat a young Ali I feel, he could be Ali's Schmeling, if you see what I mean. There might even be a trilogy.

Braddock would be easier for Ali and he might actually do the near impossible and force Braddock to quit.

The Conn fight wouldn't happen. What would be the point, he would have literally no chance.

Walcott would be far, far easier for Ali, he would stop Walcott middle rounds twice I think.

These are the thoughts that first occur to me.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:52 PM   #4
garymcfall
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Remember as well that we may have seen Ali in his prime years in this instance as well, maybe he would be a mix of young and old ali, the speed reflexes of young ali and the ring smarts of the older version. I think he would beat everyone in Louis era.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by garymcfall
Remember as well that we may have seen Ali in his prime years in this instance as well, maybe he would be a mix of young and old ali, the speed reflexes of young ali and the ring smarts of the older version. I think he would beat everyone in Louis era.

You don't see him serving in WW2?

Also, if he was knocked down by Cooper as a green fighter, it's possible that Baer could spark him.
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Good question!

Green Ali v Schmeling would be very interesting. VERY interesting, but I would pick green Ali to win it nontheless.

The Max Baer fight would be harder for him. Baer would be a live wire the entire time he was in there - the later rounds v Baer would be the cricial ones for Ali I feel, and there'd probably be a rematch to boot. It's possible that Baer could beat a young Ali I feel, he could be Ali's Schmeling, if you see what I mean. There might even be a trilogy.

Braddock would be easier for Ali and he might actually do the near impossible and force Braddock to quit.

The Conn fight wouldn't happen. What would be the point, he would have literally no chance.

Walcott would be far, far easier for Ali, he would stop Walcott middle rounds twice I think.

These are the thoughts that first occur to me.
The Baer fight might be especially interesting ,my first thoughts are that the crude Baer is badly outboxed by Ali,as he was by Braddock,but as Ali lacked Louis,s power,Baer might be much more confident going in and not freeze as he did against Joe,that said Ali had a chin on a par with Max,s and didnt get caught with too many right hands ,he was past it when Shavers tagged him.I havent thought about the outcomes to the defenses ,just posted hoping for feed back.
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Why the dismissal of Conn. He was small, tough, fast and white - Ali's worst nightmare...

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Good question!

Green Ali v Schmeling would be very interesting. VERY interesting, but I would pick green Ali to win it nontheless.

The Max Baer fight would be harder for him. Baer would be a live wire the entire time he was in there - the later rounds v Baer would be the cricial ones for Ali I feel, and there'd probably be a rematch to boot. It's possible that Baer could beat a young Ali I feel, he could be Ali's Schmeling, if you see what I mean. There might even be a trilogy.

Braddock would be easier for Ali and he might actually do the near impossible and force Braddock to quit.

The Conn fight wouldn't happen. What would be the point, he would have literally no chance.

Walcott would be far, far easier for Ali, he would stop Walcott middle rounds twice I think.

These are the thoughts that first occur to me.
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Why the dismissal of Conn. He was small, tough, fast and white - Ali's worst nightmare...
He's using speed and ring generalship to outbox Louis. Ali destroys a 170lb man using these techniques, because he is also very fast and smart. I don't see Conn lasting more than six rounds with Ali.
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
You don't see him serving in WW2?

Also, if he was knocked down by Cooper as a green fighter, it's possible that Baer could spark him.
depending on when he was called up, i said we MAY have seen some of his prime.
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
You don't see him serving in WW2?
This is an interesting question. WWII was a much different war than Vietnam and the NOI wasn't nearly as big if it was even around in the 1940s so Ali (or perhaps Clay, if he fought in Louis's time) probably wouldn't have become a muslim and his actions wouldn't be influenced by the NOI. I believe he would have done the same thing Louis did and put of exhibitions for the troops. But would White America accept him? Louis was as humble as possible and we know Ali wouldnt act that way. Anyway, back to the original question, the Ali-Baer prefight buildup would be highly entertaining and the fight would be a mismatch with Ali winning a UD.
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by garymcfall
depending on when he was called up, i said we MAY have seen some of his prime.

Given that they missed out on similair amounts of their careers and we're appraising the fighter we know, it seems sensible to presume things would work out the same way they did for Louis, and the lost years are approx. the same as those he lost in the 70's.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:05 PM   #12
Mike South
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
Replace Louis with Ali for The Bombers title reign.
What changes do you see?
Ali defends against the same opponents,whatresults would change?
Would Ali be unbeaten?
Which wins do you think would be more emphatic?
Which fights would be harder?
Which easier?
Ali would spend the Carnera fight dancing around the ring and the mob would meet him in his dressing room and take him for a ride, never to be seen or heard from again. In those days fighters were expected to fight, not run.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:06 PM   #13
Mike South
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
Replace Louis with Ali for The Bombers title reign.
What changes do you see?
Ali defends against the same opponents,whatresults would change?
Would Ali be unbeaten?
Which wins do you think would be more emphatic?
Which fights would be harder?
Which easier?
Ali would spend the Carnera fight dancing around the ring and the mob would meet him in his dressing room and take him for a ride, never to be seen or heard from again. In those days fighters were expected to fight, not run.

The other possibilty is that Ali would never get a shot at Carnera or anyone else because of his mouth and the fear of another Jack Johnson.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:06 PM   #14
Mike South
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Sorry about the double post.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: ALI in Place of LOUIS from1937 to1949

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike South
Ali would spend the Carnera fight dancing around the ring and the mob would meet him in his dressing room and take him for a ride, never to be seen or heard from again. In those days fighters were expected to fight, not run.

The other possibilty is that Ali would never get a shot at Carnera or anyone else because of his mouth and the fear of another Jack Johnson.
You have a very good point on the fight and not run part. Ali would
have to fight differently to get decisions in the 1934 to 1951 era.
He would have to come down off his toes and fight more or he would
lose a great many decisions.
Also, if he tried to fight the way he did in the sixties, would he even
have gotten a chance. I think not.
And it is an open question how a great many close decisions would
have gone if he would have used jab and run or rope-a-dope
strategies in that era. Louis went for knockouts because he didn't
want to take fights to the white judges against white opponents any
more than absolutely necessary.

I think Ali in that era would have been a heavyweight Charley Burley.
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