Is this the biggest fight of Anderson's MMA career?

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by yaca you

wins over Leben, Frankin (for the belt), lutter, marquart and rematch with Franklin again. They were all early stoppages. Silva was absolutely dominant! this was Anderson Silva's great run which dominance wise kinda ended with Thales Leites, but really it was his fight with Maia that changed the most peoples position on Silva.

It's true. Though I would argue that it was the Henderson fight itself that carved Anderson Silva's ATG legacy in stone.

[Ne5ville14]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Despite what the likes of Stoo and scurla would have you believe, it's easy to agree with someone 90% of the way down the line while still holding a different opinion yourself. It doesn't always have to be "A is correct, if you think B you're a fucking retard." Sometimes A and B can both be legitimate points of view even though they conflict.

....Haggis, it's hard not to agree with : Henderson is prolly one of the 3 best win of Anderson career...

It's not the kind of thing you can disagree on...

It's easy to agree with you when you say something consistent and that make some kind on sens.

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Would you gamble that it won't be the highest-selling PPV of Anderson's career?

Again I wish you could just stop thinking like a boxing fan...highest selling PPV doesn't mean it's the most important fight of Anderson career...highest PPV means shit. Highest PPV means more marketing, wich IMO kills the sport because, most of the time, more marketing means more WWE like stuff.

Wich is exactly the case in this fight. It's a WWE wet dream...

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Well, against Hendo, Anderson struggled in the first round. But then it became apparent that he had figured Henderson out, and he stopped him in the second round.

And he got the back of Henderson and won via RNC if my memory is correct....so yes, the Henderson win was a more dominant then the Sonnen win

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Against Sonnen, Anderson spent the entire fight not just losing, but getting dominated. When the stoppage came against Hendo, Anderson was in control of the fight. When the stoppage came against Sonnen, it was a Hail Mary that appeared out of nowhere at the last possible moment. The argument can easily be made that Anderson lucked out against Sonnen, that Chael only had to run the clock down for a couple of minutes to win 5-0 on all scorecards. The manner of Sonnen's loss demands a rematch. Can't say that about Henderson.

What is your point ?
Have you seen me arguing against the rematch ?

The way I understand the construction of your argument is that you still try to say that the first Sonnen win was the more significant of his career and again I can't agree with that...

Who cares how the fight went and how he won...Sonnen is still a B class fighter and until the rematch happen the only thing that we can objectively say is that MAYBE, it was a bad night for Anderson...

If the same thing happen for the rematch then maybe you will have an argument, but it's not the case now.

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

It's a fair call.

But then, not many B+ fighters dominate a top-3 ATG like that.

Yep, and Serra still won via TKO against GSP...
Anything can happen in MMA

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Well, JDS getting the shit knocked out of him and coming back to KO Hunt with 2 minutes left would certainly be a great display of heart and guts and championship-level will to win. Better than a fight against a more skilled guy who is stylistically unable to impose his will at all.

.....

I'm not talking about a better fight but a better win Haggis...2 completely different thing. Yes the Hunt fight would be better that is a no brainer....but Mir would still be a better win for all the reason you keep reminding me that Hunt doesn't deserve a shot at the title...

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

What's the point of these boards, if not arguing for the sake of arguing?

You do realize that there is a difference between genuinely asking a question and to repeat the same thing over and over again ad noseum ?

I mean, I think my previous post were very clear but you still want to repeat your argument even though I understand perfectly what you meant and I didn't agree with most of it.

It's nice to share different POV I agree with you, but in my definition of argument at least there is some kind of acknowledgement of each other argument and then we can move on to the next level...but it's never seem to be the case here...or is it only a feeling I have ?

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

I can see the case for Henderson being Anderson's best win.

There is

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

But there is a case for Sonnen being his best win as well.

No there isn't....you have a case for the most dramatic win but Sonnen will never be Anderson Silva best win, forget about that, it's an insult to everyone else. It's an insult to Maia !

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

I just wanted to see what the general consensus was, and if there was a legitimate discussion to be had, or if there was only the usual infantile shit-throwing.

I think the general consensus is : Sonnen is far from being the best win of Anderson Silva, it may be the most dramatic, but not the most significant or important or anything like that.

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

[BewareofDawg]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

It's true. Though I would argue that it was the Henderson fight itself that carved Anderson Silva's ATG legacy in stone.

[BobDigi5060]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

1) Is this the biggest fight of Anderson's career?

2) Was Sonnen 1 his greatest victory?

3) Is Chael Sonnen Anderson's greatest rival in his career?

4) If he loses a 5-0 decision, does it do much harm to Silva's legacy? Or is he too old for it to matter?

5) If he wins by KO in the 1st, does it do much good for Silva's legacy? Or is Sonnen too shit of an opponent for it to matter?

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes

4) If Fedor can lose 3 in a row, beat 3 bums in a row and still be considered the ATG.. Hell fuckin' yeah.

5) If Silva TKO1, his legacy is sealed.

[Peter__1987]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

1) Is this the biggest fight of Anderson's career?

2) Was Sonnen 1 his greatest victory?

3) Is Chael Sonnen Anderson's greatest rival in his career?

4) If he loses a 5-0 decision, does it do much harm to Silva's legacy? Or is he too old for it to matter?

5) If he wins by KO in the 1st, does it do much good for Silva's legacy? Or is Sonnen too shit of an opponent for it to matter?

1) Is this the biggest fight of Anderson's career?


It's the biggest fight in the history of MMA in my opinion, so yes.

2) Was Sonnen 1 his greatest victory?

No, i would personally say Hendo.


3) Is Chael Sonnen Anderson's greatest rival in his career?

Yes.


4) If he loses a 5-0 decision, does it do much harm to Silva'
s legacy? Or is he too old for it to matter?

It harms it no question, but he still goes down as the GOAT in my opinion.


5) If he wins by KO in the 1st, does it do much good for Silva's legacy? Or is Sonnen too shit of an opponent for it to matter?

Anyone who dominates Anderson Silva for 5 rounds is not a "shit fighter" a first round KO would be a huge win for Silva.

[SouthpawSlayer]

why does haggis ride sonnens nuts so much, he is a bellend of the highest order who seems to think he is a WWE star

[greathamza]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

1) Is this the biggest fight of Anderson's career?

2) Was Sonnen 1 his greatest victory?

3) Is Chael Sonnen Anderson's greatest rival in his career?

4) If he loses a 5-0 decision, does it do much harm to Silva's legacy? Or is he too old for it to matter?

5) If he wins by KO in the 1st, does it do much good for Silva's legacy? Or is Sonnen too shit of an opponent for it to matter?

1. No
2. No Hendo was
3. If he wasnt using and Silva not hurting then i would have said yes.
4. He is already on the downslide as one could see in the Okami fight before the punches didnt even touch him now they did even tho he rolled with them.
5. Sonnen is pretty shit to begin with

[Beouche]

Silva beat Hendo so easy. It breaks my hea heaheahea heaheahea heaheaheaheahea heart hes not given himself tougher challengers throughout his career

Content to pit his other worldly skills with one of the weakest divisions around

Pele called him a coward. He's no BJ or Fedor that's for sure


Sonnen's fucked. They should allow him to juice if they want this fight to have even the slightest chance of being a little bit competitive

[Will Cooling]

Well Beouche you're in luck, they are allowing him to juice.

And Haggis' question(s) reminds me of something GSP said when I interviewed him last week. I asked him what to him was his greatest, most memorable fight and he said it was the second Matt Serra fight. Now no one would claim that Matt Serra is the greatest fighter GSP has defeated...hell you could make a very convincing case that he doesn't really belong in the top five...but the closet you get to a defining moment in GSP's career is in that match.

Silva vs. Sonnen II is like that, right down to the meaning of the match being tied up in the result of the first and the fallout that followed. Silva rescuing the fight showed he wasn't a frontrunner but could battle adversary and was the beginning of a renewed run of excellence. Sonnen's trashtalking and erratic behaviour has clearly angered Silva and helped make this the most anticipated fight of Silva's career in the USA. But don't let that obscure the fact that Sonnen has not done the things in his career that warrant him being ranked above Henderson, Franklin, Griffin or Belfort.

Its also worth being careful not to be too Anglo-centric in all this. When Silva retires as a mainstream celebrity in Brazil with a lifetime of blue chip products to endorse and a chain of martial arts schools to run its not going to be Chael Sonnen him and his management should be thanking. It'll be Vitor Belfort.

[thewinfella]

1) Is this the biggest fight of Anderson's career?
IMO Yes

2) Was Sonnen 1 his greatest victory?
Henderson followed by Franklin 1 for me

3) Is Chael Sonnen Anderson's greatest rival in his career?
He may be after this fight yes

4) If he loses a 5-0 decision, does it do much harm to Silva's legacy? Or is he too old for it to matter?
Harm his legacy I'm not sure , definitively prove Sonnen is a better fighter than him id say it has too

5) If he wins by KO in the 1st, does it do much good for Silva's legacy? Or is Sonnen too shit of an opponent for it to matter?
Yes , a quick TKO over Sonnen puts it all to bed !!!!

Henderson was a career defining win for Spider.

But Sonnen II will have the biggest build-up to an MMA fight in the history of the sport. Hopefully the contest will live up to the hype.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer

why does haggis ride sonnens nuts so much, he is a bellend of the highest order who seems to think he is a WWE star

I ride Sonnen's nuts so hard that I pick Silva to beat him by stoppage in the rematch. And my scorecard had Chael losing to Bisping as well.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

....Haggis, it's hard not to agree with : Henderson is prolly one of the 3 best win of Anderson career...

It's not the kind of thing you can disagree on...

It's easy to agree with you when you say something consistent and that make some kind on sens.

I thought I said that Henderson is or would be one of the 3 best career wins for anyone.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

Again I wish you could just stop thinking like a boxing fan...highest selling PPV doesn't mean it's the most important fight of Anderson career...highest PPV means shit. Highest PPV means more marketing, wich IMO kills the sport because, most of the time, more marketing means more WWE like stuff.

Wich is exactly the case in this fight. It's a WWE wet dream...

I asked if it was the "biggest" fight of Anderson's career.

Objectively, the only way we can compare how big different fights are compared to each other, is by viewing figures.

Anderson-Hendo sold 325,000 PPVs.

Anderson-Sonnen 2 will do at least twice that.

Okay, that's not the be-all and end-all, but Sonnen 2 is definately the highest-profile fight in Anderson's career. Best opponent? No. But this fight is going to generate more attention that any of Anderson's other fights, and that by itself puts it very close to the top of the list for "biggest fight in his career." MMA fans know that the Hendo win was more meaningful in a historic sense. But this fight is bigger.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

And he got the back of Henderson and won via RNC if my memory is correct....so yes, the Henderson win was a more dominant then the Sonnen win

Of course it was.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

The way I understand the construction of your argument is that you still try to say that the first Sonnen win was the more significant of his career and again I can't agree with that...

Hendo is a more historically-significant opponent. But the fight went like all Anderson's fights do. Easy early stoppage with little call or need for a rematch.

Sonnen, on the other hand, forced Anderson to show just how great an ATG he is, with his ability to pull an incredible win out of nowhere at the last minute while getting dominated. We hadn't seen Anderson getting owned before that. He showed that he's not a frontrunner, that he can win by stoppage at ANY time no matter what is happening in the fight. In short, Sonnen forced him to show us things we hadn't seen before. Henderson merely confirmed beyond doubt what we already knew - Anderson is an ATG who can comfortably beat up and defeat other ATGs.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

Yep, and Serra still won via TKO against GSP...
Anything can happen in MMA

Serra landed a lucky punch and had the balls and the presence of mind to immediately follow up on it and get the stoppage.

Chael spent 4 1/2 rounds abusing the UFC's #1 ATG who was fully conscious and clear-headed the entire time.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

I'm not talking about a better fight but a better win Haggis...2 completely different thing. Yes the Hunt fight would be better that is a no brainer....but Mir would still be a better win for all the reason you keep reminding me that Hunt doesn't deserve a shot at the title...

OK, but Sonnen DOES deserve a shot at the title.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

It's nice to share different POV I agree with you, but in my definition of argument at least there is some kind of acknowledgement of each other argument and then we can move on to the next level...but it's never seem to be the case here...or is it only a feeling I have ?

I'm not acknowledging your argument? How do you figure that, when I split up your posts and respond to them point by point? I'm not trashing you, I'm responding to what you have said.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

No there isn't....you have a case for the most dramatic win but Sonnen will never be Anderson Silva best win, forget about that, it's an insult to everyone else. It's an insult to Maia !

Silva is the one who insulted Maia. That fight is a shitstain on his legacy.

Originally Posted by Ne5ville14

I think the general consensus is : Sonnen is far from being the best win of Anderson Silva, it may be the most dramatic, but not the most significant or important or anything like that.

Well, the thread question was whether or not Sonnen 2 is the biggest fight of Anderson's career, for a start. And opinion is divided between Hendo and Sonnen 2.

Plus, the significance of Sonnen 1 grows either way after the rematch.

If Silva wins easily, it'll show the heart and guts that an injured Anderson displayed in the unprecedented situation of getting dominated in a UFC fight and coming back with a miracle last-minute submission.

And if Sonnen wins, then clearly he's a stylistic nightmare for an ageing Anderson, and the last-gasp submission becomes more impressive in the context of Sonnen just plain being Silva's kryptonite.

[Ne5ville14]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes

4) If Fedor can lose 3 in a row, beat 3 bums in a row and still be considered the ATG.. Hell fuckin' yeah.

5) If Silva TKO1, his legacy is sealed.

seriously ?