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Old 05-04-2009, 12:39 PM   #1
la-califa
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Default Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Who would win this bout? Could Holmes move around ,use the jab. & keep the Brown Bomber at bay? 15 Rounds.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

I actully think he could. Louis' right would of course be a big factor, but one shouldn't dismiss Larry's right either, since Louis also showed a weakness for right counters and Holmes had a good right.

I think Holmes' jab and movement would see him a to a points decision more often than not.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Prme vs prime, I would bet on Joe Louis, without a second's hesitation!
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Old 05-04-2009, 01:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Larry Holmes never ever could get rid of that glaring problem of being a huge sucker for a right hand. It was not just the snipes and shavers fights, it was also some of his other major fights like mike weaver, Tim Witherspoon, Ken Norton, Bonecrusher Smith, Mike Tyson....Most of these guys that had the big right hands that hurt Larry did not possess top notch finishing ability...the one guy who did, Mike tyson(albeit larry was old), knocked him out cold. Louis is the greatest puncher of all time, and you can bet ur arse when he finds holmes noggin with that right hand somewhere in the fight, once holmes gets off the canvas louis is going to be all over him with fight finishing combinations...and thats all she wrote!

I do see why Larry avoided fighting some of the top right handed punchers in the mid 1980s
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Larry Holmes never ever could get rid of that glaring problem of being a huge sucker for a right hand. It was not just the snipes and shavers fights, it was also some of his other major fights like mike weaver, Tim Witherspoon, Ken Norton, Bonecrusher Smith, Mike Tyson....Most of these guys that had the big right hands that hurt Larry did not possess top notch finishing ability...the one guy who did, Mike tyson(albeit larry was old), knocked him out cold. Louis is the greatest puncher of all time, and you can bet ur arse when he finds holmes noggin with that right hand somewhere in the fight, once holmes gets off the canvas louis is going to be all over him with fight finishing combinations...and thats all she wrote!

I do see why Larry avoided fighting some of the top right handed punchers in the mid 1980s
But Holmes was Louis' poison in several ways as well. Louis was also susceptical to an overhand right and he had problems with technical, slick boxers.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

I have gone back and forth on this subject many times, and have picked both men to win this match. I don't think selecting a sure winner is easy in this particular case. Holmes had some weaknesses and getting sloppy was one of them. But, ironically his worst performances came against lesser opposition. He was generally fairly motivated for his best opponents, and typically looked fairly good in his biggest fights. Louis was floored or troubled by lesser opponents during his career too, but look at what happened when he fought Schmeling in the rematch, or Joe Walcott for the second time... He also looked pretty damn scary in dusting a very formidable Max Baer along with giants in Buddy Baer, Primo Carnera and Abe Simon.

The point being, we shouldn't just look at flat performances where one or the other appeared sluggish or vulnerable. We have to assume that if two all time greats new they were entering the ring with an all time great counterpart, that they would prepare accordingly ( look at Ali - Frazier I. )

That said, I am going to go with Holmes this week ( could change tomarrow. ) I think that of all Louis's opponents, Holmes' boxing ability, ring generalship and the ability to survive an onslaught to come back and win has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Yes, someone could just as easily say that Holmes never fought a technical puncher of Louis's calibur and was troubled by worse. While this is definately true, I think weighing all factors together things still amount to better odds for Holmes taking a decision.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by la-califa View Post
Who would win this bout? Could Holmes move around ,use the jab. & keep the Brown Bomber at bay? 15 Rounds.
Yes. This is Holmes' forte. He would outspeed Louis. I don't see this as a difficult fight for Holmes.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Larry Holmes never ever could get rid of that glaring problem of being a huge sucker for a right hand. It was not just the snipes and shavers fights, it was also some of his other major fights like mike weaver, Tim Witherspoon, Ken Norton, Bonecrusher Smith, Mike Tyson....Most of these guys that had the big right hands that hurt Larry did not possess top notch finishing ability...the one guy who did, Mike tyson(albeit larry was old), knocked him out cold. Louis is the greatest puncher of all time, and you can bet ur arse when he finds holmes noggin with that right hand somewhere in the fight, once holmes gets off the canvas louis is going to be all over him with fight finishing combinations...and thats all she wrote!

I do see why Larry avoided fighting some of the top right handed punchers in the mid 1980s
And Louis had a low guard, slow feet, and a stick your face forward stance. In truth Louis was more of a sucker for a right and far easier to hit in general SuzieQ. I think you should watch the films, and spare us the big less than skilled larger fighters Louis beat, then try to suggest they compare to modern skilled super heavies.

When matched vs good boxers, Louis struggled big time. I think Walcott won more rounds than Louis did in the series. So did Max Schmeling. Louis barely edged Pastor on points, did not look good vs skilled boxers like Conn or Farr either. In fact Conn outboxed Louis, and Louis vs Farr is a close enough fight on a fair score card, and Farr was nothing special at all. The truth is Louis had trouble vs good boxers for the above reasons I stated. Slow predictable feet, a low guard, and a stick your face forward type of stance. I think it safe to say Holmes was a great boxer, had a better jab than anyone I mentioned who gave Louis fits. Holmes also owned a big time height and reach advantage over the guys I mentioned too.

Louis' chin by champion standards is nothing more than average. He was rocked by the likes of Tommy Farr and 167 pound Billy Conn on film. I think Holmes hits a lot harder than these two. In additon Holmes was no fool in the ring, He would not get cute and caught as Walcott did in the 2nd fight. By the way Walcott was up on points in the 2nd fight too.

Maybe Louis would land something serious. I don't doubt Louis was a great puncher and finisher, but again Holmes chin was tested by the likes of Shavers, Cooney, Smith, Witherpsoon, Norton, Snipes, McCall, Mercer, and others, some of these guys had very good right hands. Holmes had one of the best chins among heavyweight champions, good recouperation power ( Louis was dazed once Schemling floored him and could not recover ) and true 15 round stamina. Stopping him is not easy. In fact, Holmes was only stopped once in 75 fights, and it happened when he was Holmes was 38 and comming off a layoff to meet a prime Mike Tyson.

I think Holmes would win clean on points or perhaps even via a late round TKO. This one could be more one sided than many would care to admit.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

It would be interesting for a quite few rounds If both men were prime. Larry would have to be on his toes and utilize the jab carefully..Louis would stalk and use the jab coming in...The right hand would eventually find his mark and Larry would be hurt and dropped, difference is Louis was a complete finisher and he would rein on Holmes with hooks and right hands Larry would go down hard for a spectacular KO by the BROWN BOMBER
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

I'd favor Louis if they came along at the same time, though not greatly; time-machined together, it could go either way.

The counting rounds argument ..... it's hard to accumulate rounds when you KO1 your opponent (Schmeling II); which is not a good reason to not KO them ......
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

I'd put my money on holmes without a doubt. He was far superior to most opponents that louis faced and he hnew how to put his physical advantages to use. Louis would have to contend with holmes jab which was more of a punch, his quick right and movement. Holmes was also mentally tough and was one of the best at using his reach to keep his opponents at a distance.

All of this would spell trouble for louis who was slow afoot and wouldn't be able to consistently get close enough to do frequent damage. His best and only chance would be for holmes to trade with him because he certainly couldn't outbox him.

Holmes by late round stoppage, somewhere around the 12th or 13th.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guilalah View Post
I'd favor Louis if they came along at the same time, though not greatly; time-machined together, it could go either way.

The counting rounds argument ..... it's hard to accumulate rounds when you KO1 your opponent (Schmeling II); which is not a good reason to not KO them ......
The angle I was going for was Louis was out boxed by some good boxers who were not as good as boxers as Holmes was. I also feel Louis lost too many rounds to " solid " boxers. If its a points decision, I think Holmes takes it.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

I could see Holmes outpointing Louis, for sure. Holmes might get outpointed if he gutted through a bad night, too. But I'd agree, if it goes the distance, Holmes has a bit better chance.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

This is the definition of a 50/50 fight. Holmes has the skills to outbox and outpoint Louis, but if there is any boxer other than Tyson who is likely to KO Larry, it is Joe Louis. Unlike Shavers, once Louis had a man hurt, he was a deadly finisher.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
I actully think he could. Louis' right would of course be a big factor, but one shouldn't dismiss Larry's right either, since Louis also showed a weakness for right counters and Holmes had a good right.

I think Holmes' jab and movement would see him a to a points decision more often than not.
Yeah, I see Holmes by points or late rd. TKO over Louis...... Joe Louis was great, but, he was not as good at taking it as he was giving it..... Larry Holmes had a better chin and durability than Louis, as well.....

Louis' jab was great; Holmes' was better..... Louis' right cross was wicked; Holmes' was pretty damn sharp and hard, too.....

Louis had a great hook; Holmes did not.....

Both Louis and Holmes had fast hands, but Holmes had better legs and speed there

Yes.... Larry Holmes beats Joe Louis......

MR.BILL
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