Joe Frazier vs Jack Dempsey ?

[he grant]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

You base an entire argument on a small slice of history when you refer to Jess Willard, a man born of the Jack Johnson White Hope era when any man of a certain size was drafted to make a shot at a ring career ... while there were many that came out of that small pocket of time to smear the entire decade shows you either know nothing about the age or simply choose to distort facts on purpose to build an argument with no legs. IN addition, what Willard managed to accomplish was exceptional considering he did not ever put on a set of gloves till the age of 28 or so ..

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

Can't believe I'm getting involved.

The only thing amusing about it all is Burt's enthusiasm and nostalgia for the times where men were tougher and political correctness was not in overabundance.

We briefly talked about Johnny Dundee when I asked about his nickname, Scotch Wop. But when Suzie calls Williard a white gooftrooper... all of a sudden its racist and vile self-loathing.

For your information Johnny Dundee was given the name "Scotch Wop",as a term of affection, cause Dundee was a Scotch name and Dundee's birth place was in Sicily...For the poster S to castigate an entire race by using the term" white Gooftrooper ", or "whitey", is not an endearing term and I repeat , would S say "Black gooftrooper, or "Blackie", on this "tolerant " ESB. ? HELL NO...There is no one on this forum that despises political correctness more than I do, but deep in your heart you know it is always targeted at "Whitey ". today...Think about it Pete...Cheers...

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by he grant

Your facts and time line is wrong ... by the time Dempsey fought there were more boxing gyms across the country than at any other time , a period that would remain up through the dawn of television ... you are confusing this with the age of Sullivan but then again why bother with details since this is obvious a thread dominated by amateurs ...

Gee its.nice to know I'm an amateur...

I think you're being a tad disingenuous with you're statement that by Dempseys' time there were more boxing gyms than ever before. For most of his career this simply is not true. You know who sparked the boxing craze that led to all these gyms? Dempsey. I can say without qualification that Dempsey was the greatest box office draw of his time. It would not be a stretch to say that he was the greatest box office attraction in the history of the sport. The numbers don't lie.

Do you know what barnstorming was? Not what Lindbergh did as a young pilot, but what top baseball players had to do for extra money, the really good popular ones at least. The rest of the guys sold insurance or ran a farm.

The professional athlete, the modern athlete was made, IMO, in this errs the Golden Age of Sports. Ruth, Tilden, Bobby Jones (who ironically enough was an amateur), Dempsey those guys helped create their sports in a modern sense.

I have carefully avoided value judgments because times were rougher back then, life was rougher. Despite the lack of the modernity of professionalism I have not and will not dismiss those guys. You know what Ty Cobb was? A brilliant ballplayer, and I think he'd be the same pretty much anywhere, even now. Dempsey was a force, a man that drew non laughable comparisons to a Tiger, a heavyweight Terry McGovern with a defense and the patience to wear a guy down when the early knockout didn't come. But be beat who he beat, and whatever we say now won't change that.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

For your information Johnny Dundee was given the name "Scotch Wop",as a term of affection, cause Dundee was a Scotch name and Dundee's birth place was in Sicily...For the poster S to castigate an entire race by using the term" white Gooftrooper ", or "whitey", is not an endearing term and I repeat , would S say "Black gooftrooper, or "Blackie", on this "tolerant " ESB. ? HELL NO...There is no one on this forum that despises political correctness more than I do, but deep in your heart you know it is always targeted at "Whitey ". today...Think about it Pete...Cheers...

S did not castigate an entire race. Suzie was talking about just Williard anyway. I think this is just a generation gap thing (For lack of a better word) for you to feel this way Burt because no one else does.

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

S did not castigate an entire race. Suzie was talking about just Williard anyway. I think this is just a generation gap thing (For lack of a better word) for you to feel this way Burt because no one else does.

Ok, Pete, i get it. You feel that i am the exception to the rule, but YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION CAUSE YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT...Would S, ever use the dumb term BLACK GOOFTROOPER, or the term "BLACKIE"?. Hell no and you know it in your gut, but haven't the courage to come to terms with my question...I have heard that word "whitey" many, many times from S over the few years I have been on ESB, so this is not one abberation... It has been said many times, and if I am the only poster
who feels offended, well maybe I am on the wrong forum P.
P.S. So answer my question above if YOU CAN ?...
P.P.S. Pete, I might not be a youngster chronologically, but I am just as aware as you are, even if NO ONE else on ESB doesn't mind being called
white gooftrooper, nor "whitey"...There is a double standard today P, and you are part of it, though unaware...

[he grant]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

Ok, Pete, i get it. You feel that i am the exception to the rule, but YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION CAUSE YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT...Would S, ever use the dumb term BLACK GOOFTROOPER, or the term "BLACKIE"?. Hell no and you know it in your gut, but haven't the courage to come to terms with my question...I have heard that word "whitey" many, many times from S over the few years I have been on ESB, so this is not one abberation... It has been said many times, and if I am the only poster
who feels offended, well maybe I am on the wrong forum P.
P.S. So answer my question above if YOU CAN ?...
P.P.S. Pete, I might not be a youngster chronologically, but I am just as aware as you are, even if NO ONE else on ESB doesn't mind being called
white gooftrooper, nor "whitey"...There is a double standard today P, and you are part of it, though unaware...

Of course there is a double standard .. it is huge and no one in the country is taking bigger advantage of it than the White House but that's a whole other story ... SQ is simply more than likely a kid and doesn't even know the point you're making ... as far as Pete goes, I'm not sure one way or the other ...

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by he grant

Of course there is a double standard .. it is huge and no one in the country is taking bigger advantage of it than the White House but that's a whole other story ... SQ is simply more than likely a kid and doesn't even know the point you're making ... as far as Pete goes, I'm not sure one way or the other ...

he, you have said it all...If SQ wanted to diminish Jess Willard, why not say
"gooftrooper", or country bumpkin, why the word "WHITE"? Because he is a self-hating caucasian or he wants to score points by PANDERING...Either reason the man is hurting one race, but would not DARE to use the appelation Black Gooftrooper" or "Blackie" for rightful fear of the consequences of his WORDS...S, and P, know I'm correct, and they AVOID
answering my simple question...Yes there is a double standard today, and
not calling reverse racist's to task is not a wise thing to do in the long run...Take care he...

[LittleRed]

I'm about to expose my ignorance but what is a goof trooper? Never heard the term.

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

I'm about to expose my ignorance but what is a goof trooper? Never heard the term.

Niether. Assuming it means a. oaf...clumsy, awkward that sort of thing.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

Because he is a self-hating caucasian or he wants to score points by PANDERING

Personally, I think that he used the word "white" because it is a byword for "average" in an era where he feels the best heavies were black.

He may be wrong about that, and I may be wrong about him, but I don't know the man.

[he grant]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Personally, I think that he used the word "white" because it is a byword for "average" in an era where he feels the best heavies were black.

He may be wrong about that, and I may be wrong about him, but I don't know the man.

Cool avatar !

[McGrain]

It's a beast right enough. Sans referee it'd be up there with pictures of the moon-landings...

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Personally, I think that he used the word "white" because it is a byword for "average" in an era where he feels the best heavies were black.

He may be wrong about that, and I may be wrong about him, but I don't know the man.

Mc, using the name "whitey" many times is not a byword for" average ".Using the word "white Gooftrooper" is not an endearing term. Why not just say, "gooftrooper",instead of using the description WHITE ?
Would he EVER say BLACK Gooftrooper or Blackie ? No sir, cause he KNOWS that term will not be allowed on ESB...And rightfully so...I hate intolerance in any form or guise, and Mc this was not the first time...
Cheers...

[McGrain]

I just told you why.

But whether you're right or wrong you should probably leave it be, it's not important.

[SuzieQ49]

McGrain and Madcap Maxie, you've hit the nail on the head. HEGrant is the king of double standards here, I could care less about his opinion on anything. He makes me laugh with his silliness.

Burt,

do you know what you need?