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Old 06-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Of course he was, he would just pinch Foreman until he cried.
It worked for the other two elite defensive fighters that Foreman fought.

Perhaps three times is the charm?
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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It worked for the other two elite defensive fighters that Foreman fought.

Perhaps three times is the charm?
Yes, he lost to the greatest heavyweight of all time, and when he was completely mentally shot. Two career lows. Now, I could mention 8 or so for Johnson. Is this really how we play the game?
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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I think he very well may be. He reminds me of a more athletic version of Bernard Hopkins.

He proved against Williard that he could fight aggressively when he had to, and like Hopkins, he would explode in a tight shell defense with quick, short, combinations.

That bodes well for him if he were to fight against the Klitschkos. Additionally, he made a career as a great spoiler against aggressive, strong fighters, so I think he would do well against guys like Tyson and Frazier.

He has a great inside game and an excellent jab.

I think his toughest fight would be against Ali who may be fleet of foot and fast of hands enough to beat Johnson by a decision, but Johnson would land the more telling blows.

Ali would beat him with workrate.

Other than Ali though, I can think of few heavies that would beat him. He would at least be competitive with every fighter in history in my opinion.

Jack Johnson was crap, he could not punch, his defence was flawed, his chin was china.

Johnson would never rematch Sam Langford because he had such a terrible time of it in their only encounter, Langford had him on the verge of a ko on several occasions, but the referee saved him.


Johnson was shit scared of Joe Jeannette because Joe was so good,and unwilling to lay down for him.

Joe Choynski kod Johnson when Joe was only 125lbs to Johnson's 210lbs.

Jack O Brien ran Johnson out of the ring and deserved the nod.

The Ketchel fight was staged with Stanley straying from the script ,then realising what he has done ,and promptly taking a dive.


Jim Jeffries had to lose 200lbs in 3 weeks before he could fight Johnson.
Even so he, was in front until he was given drugged tea.

Jim Johnson was robbed against Jack ,the fight was shortened from 150rds to 10 , just because Jack ran out of puff.

Jack Johnson would not fight anyone who scaled above the middle weight limit.

Jack Johnson could not take punches to the body, no darkies can.


Johnson quit against Bob Lawson and Bill Hartwell.


Jack Johnson was a coward who would always quit when the going got rough.

Jack Johnson was a pimping, loudmouthed, sodomizing, arrogant, black bastard.

Thankfully, the second black heavyweight champ knew his place, and kept it.



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Old 06-29-2012, 06:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Yes, he lost to the greatest heavyweight of all time, and when he was completely mentally shot. Two career lows. Now, I could mention 8 or so for Johnson. Is this really how we play the game?
If you want to.

There is no such thing as a "career low" or being "mentaly shot" for a fighter of Johnsons era.
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Tyson KO3 Johnson.
If your predictions were any good, you would not have to work for a living!
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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If you want to.

There is no such thing as a "career low" or being "mentaly shot" for a fighter of Johnsons era.
I think there was, the likes of Sandy Ferguson, Denver Ed Martin, Bill Tate. Seemed borderline world class and faded into journeymen, it's a story repeated many times in boxing

Mind you I'm not as sure as many that Foreman was 'mentally shot', I think he fought a tough style match up
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

I would bet in Johnson against Frazier.....and Tyson, Marciano and Dempsey.....I donīt see these agressive guys beating him......
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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If your predictions were any good, you would not have to work for a living!
My predictions used to be great (Lewis KOing Ruddock in under 5 made me a mint)... But I never predicted the tax man would come calling...
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
If you want to.

There is no such thing as a "career low" or being "mentaly shot" for a fighter of Johnsons era.
Please remind us all the litany of excuses for Johnson's performances against Hart, Choynski, O'Brien, Johnson... Were those career highs? Or were his career highs picking has beens and no hopers for his title defenses?
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Not even top 30... sorry but you're an idiot. He's certainly Top 15 easily IMO and maybe higher.
H2H 15 rds. modern rules so he cant grad and hold allnight.
Dempsey
Miske
T. Gibbons
Tunney
Sharkey
Schmeiling
Louis
Walcott
Charles
Liston
Patterson
Foley
Quarry
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Norton
Holmes
M.Spinks
Cooney
Dokes
Bowe
Lewis
Tyson
Holy
W.Klitschko
V.Klitschko
Witherspoon
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

You have got to be an utter simp or have never been in the ring to believe that what Johnson did against his "opposition" would work against modern heavies.
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:19 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

Jack Johnson is quite similar to Ruiz.

His gameplan included clinching while measuring the capabilities and strengths of his opponents.

Ruiz was partially successful although boring. And Johnson might be better in technique.

Don't see Johnson doing too much with better, athletic guys.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

Ummmm no.

Got KO'd by a middleweight and dropped by middleweight so not a good chin.

Didn't have much power.

Skills set is archaic.

Fought at a very slow pace.

Very rarely fought men he didnt have size dominance over.
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Old 06-30-2012, 07:23 AM   #29
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Ummmm no.

Got KO'd by a middleweight and dropped by middleweight so not a good chin.

Didn't have much power.

Skills set is archaic.

Fought at a very slow pace.

Very rarely fought men he didnt have size dominance over.

Got kod by a SUPER middleweight, when he himself was one.
A super middleweight named by 4 heavyweight champions as the hardest hitter they faced.
The kd by Ketchel is dubious, imo.

Johnson kod Ketchel for nearly 10 minutes.
Johnson kod Denver Ed Martin for so long the Police held him in case Martin died.
Johnson kod McVey not an easy thing to do.
He may not have hit like Liston or Foreman , but he could hit allright
.
Johnson's title challengers had an average weight of 202lbs.
Johnson was outweighed in 4 of his 8 defences .

Among those opponents that were taller than Jack were.
Jeffries
Willard
Moran
Kaufman
Lang
Lodge
Hartwell
Lester
Russell
McCormick
Felix
Jeffords
Jeffries.[Jack]
Johnson
Griffin
Klondike
Ferguson
Martin
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:38 AM   #30
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Default Re: Is Jack Johnson the Greatest H2H Heavy of All Time?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Got kod by a SUPER middleweight, when he himself was one.
A super middleweight named by 4 heavyweight champions as the hardest hitter they faced.
The kd by Ketchel is dubious, imo.

Johnson kod Ketchel for nearly 10 minutes.
Johnson kod Denver Ed Martin for so long the Police held him in case Martin died.
Johnson kod McVey not an easy thing to do.
He may not have hit like Liston or Foreman , but he could hit allright
.
Johnson's title challengers had an average weight of 202lbs.
Johnson was outweighed in 4 of his 8 defences .

Among those opponents that were taller than Jack were.
Jeffries
Willard
Moran
Kaufman
Lang
Lodge
Hartwell
Lester
Russell
McCormick
Felix
Jeffords
Jeffries.[Jack]
Johnson
Griffin
Klondike
Ferguson
Martin
Good Lord, a veritable list of Hall of Famers. Seriously, Jack Jeffries? Didn't he have exactly 3 fights, losing 2? And I do not believe Brother Jim was taller than Jack as he was usually listed at an even six feet. And Klondike, Willard and in reality Johnson all beat him. The rest are largely a bunch of scrubs. Kind a waters down your point, don't it? Especially when real heavyweights like Lewis primarily fought 6-2 and taller dudes who weighed a fit and ready 220 and above, pretty much every goddamned fight of his career...

And yes, Tony Ross, who went 1-4 in his 5 previous fights did outweigh Johnson by a few pounds. Good point. I will reconsider.
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