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Old 06-30-2012, 11:07 PM   #1
Haggis McJackass
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Default Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Doping is getting to be a big issue in the sport.

Obviously the two most high-profile roiders in the UFC are Chael and Reem.

But they're certainly not the only ones. And I'm no expert on the subject, so I'd like to know more about it.

How big a problem is cheating by roiding in the modern UFC?

Just how common was it in PRIDE?

Who are the most obvious roiders in both organizations?

And which guys seem like honest competitors?

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Old 06-30-2012, 11:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Wanderlei.
Arona. I've always heard people say they believed he was on something.
Plenty of Brazilians in general.
Randy Couture.



Honest guy.

BJ Penn.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

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Originally Posted by afterglow View Post
Wanderlei.
Arona. I've always heard people say they believed he was on something.
Plenty of Brazilians in general.
Randy Couture.



Honest guy.

BJ Penn.


Yeah, I'd be surprised if BJ was dirty. Maybe not so much now, but in his 20s anyway. Just seems like the type of personality who wouldn't do it simply because he knows he's gifted enough to beat anyone's ass anyway.

And with regard to Wanderlei and the Brazilians - I have noticed that they all seemed to look really musclebound. But how much do you reckon they were roided as compared to the likes of Sonnen and Reem? I mean, PRIDE Wanderlei looked like a cartoon picture of a cage fighter, UFC Wanderlei looked like a regular musclebound guy. Same with PRIDE Shogun vs UFC Shogun.

And Randy Couture - I've never heard anything about him juicing, but I'd be interested to hear about it. As I said, I don't know much about the subject, which is why I'm asking.

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Old 07-01-2012, 01:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

If Penn got busted, he'd be the biggest hypocrite. He always goes off on other fighters using steroids.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Im pretty sure some guys like Murilo Bustamante never used it.......I mean, maybe one little thing or other.....
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Honest Competitors who I would be surprised if they did use: Fedor, Machida, Penn, Shogun, Stann, GSP, Anderson Silva, Cain, JDS, and most of the lighter weight guys.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post


And with regard to Wanderlei and the Brazilians - I have noticed that they all seemed to look really musclebound. But how much do you reckon they were roided as compared to the likes of Sonnen and Reem? I mean, PRIDE Wanderlei looked like a cartoon picture of a cage fighter, UFC Wanderlei looked like a regular musclebound guy. Same with PRIDE Shogun vs UFC Shogun.


I agree about Arona and definately Wanderei. I think however that PRIDE Shogun and UFC Shogun look about the same.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

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Originally Posted by kokoko View Post
PRIDE Shogun and UFC Shogun look about the same.
I would say the same. What makes you use him as an example, Haggis?

A lot of people say Cro Cop.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

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I would say the same. What makes you use him as an example, Haggis?

A lot of people say Cro Cop.


Well, I certainly can't say he was roiding. I'm not aware of any evidence saying that he is, and I'm sure as hell no expert in the field.

It's just that I've seen a couple of his fights in PRIDE where he was tearing guys up, and then in the UFC he's never looked close to that. He didn't look bigger in PRIDE, but he seemed much more compact and solid in his physique. To me it seems like he looks a lot softer in the UFC, and he doesn't seem to have the same kind of physical strength. I mean, Jon Jones just ragdolled him with ease wherever the fight went - can you see anyone throwing PRIDE Shogun around like that?

With Wanderlei it seems pretty clear that he was roiding his ass off. And Cro Cop, while still a very physically solid guy in the UFC, wasn't the musclebound marble statue that he was in PRIDE. But I know very little about the subject, so I can't call any of them a drugs cheat. I do know that others are aware of a lot more, so I made a thread asking the question.


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Old 07-01-2012, 10:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

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Originally Posted by kokoko View Post
Honest Competitors who I would be surprised if they did use: Fedor, Machida, Penn, Shogun, Stann, GSP, Anderson Silva, Cain, JDS, and most of the lighter weight guys.

You'd get bored being surprised.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post


Well, I certainly can't say he was roiding. I'm not aware of any evidence saying that he is, and I'm sure as hell no expert in the field.

It's just that I've seen a couple of his fights in PRIDE where he was tearing guys up, and then in the UFC he's never looked close to that. He didn't look bigger in PRIDE, but he seemed much more compact and solid in his physique. To me it seems like he looks a lot softer in the UFC, and he doesn't seem to have the same kind of physical strength. I mean, Jon Jones just ragdolled him with ease wherever the fight went - can you see anyone throwing PRIDE Shogun around like that?

With Wanderlei it seems pretty clear that he was roiding his ass off. And Cro Cop, while still a very physically solid guy in the UFC, wasn't the musclebound marble statue that he was in PRIDE. But I know very little about the subject, so I can't call any of them a drugs cheat. I do know that others are aware of a lot more, so I made a thread asking the question.

So you are sure Wanderlei was on the juice when he fought in Pride but you say you have no knowledge on the subject? Then how can you know if he was on steroids?

Pride:
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

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Originally Posted by Lefthooktommy View Post
So you are sure Wanderlei was on the juice when he fought in Pride but you say you have no knowledge on the subject? Then how can you know if he was on steroids?
Well my impression is that it's basically taken as a given by most observers.

I mean, he was a longtime champ in an organization whose contracts flat out stated "you will not be tested for performance-enhancing steroids."

He was 10x more aggressive as a fighter in PRIDE, he looked far more physically imposing and his performances were much better. It's my understanding that most MMA observers accept that Wanderlei was roided.

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Old 07-01-2012, 12:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Well my impression is that it's basically taken as a given by most observers.

I mean, he was a longtime champ in an organization whose contracts flat out stated "you will not be tested for performance-enhancing steroids."

He was 10x more aggressive as a fighter in PRIDE, he looked far more physically imposing and his performances were much better. It's my understanding that most MMA observers accept that Wanderlei was roided.

Wanderlei was already on a slide towards the end of his pride career so that would explain his lackluster performances in the UFC. He was brutally Knocked out by Mirko Filipovic and Dan Henderson before he stepped foot in the UFC. Those two fights pretty much ended his career as a top mma fighter.

Last edited by Lefthooktommy; 07-01-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 07-01-2012, 12:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefthooktommy View Post
Wanderlei was already on a slide towards the end of his pride career so that would explain his lackluster performances in the UFC. He was brutally Knocked out by Mirko Filipovic and Dan Henderson before he stepped foot in the UFC. Those two fights pretty much ended his career as a top mma fighter.
Performances aside, he just wasn't anywhere near as aggressive in the UFC. He was still a slugger, but he simply didn't have that sense of barely-controlled animalistic rage. Outside of the cage he was a notorious hothead back in the day, but in the UFC he quickly mellowed right out and got the reputation of being a pretty nice guy. Some of that obviously comes with ageing into his 30s, but I've heard it attributed to no longer getting roid rages as well.

Anyway, I am only going by what I've heard from guys who know more about it than I do. I think it's regarded as a pretty common assumption/knowledge that Wandy was juicing and juicing pretty hard.

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Old 07-01-2012, 12:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

Well until someone provides concrete evidence that he was in fact cheating I will only go by what we know.


Wanderlei has never failed a drug test in the UFC.


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