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Old 07-03-2012, 09:59 PM   #31
bald_head_slick
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by P.M. View Post
Ok puff puff pass, on to the next one. Don't need to explain my credentials such a wast of time. 20 thousand post in 3 years, you did all that while spending all your time rackng up post on the net.
I ain't saying I am some beast, or doubting your credentials.

I am only saying there is no "MMA Boxing stance" because there is no set Boxing Boxing stance. Guys do what works for them or they are trained for. If you are saying you can't leave your lead leg dangling out to be kicked and/or grabbed then I agree, but that is more about the opponent than a stance.

Every MMA fight I see where guys are using their fists results in the bladed stance. They can do this because they are comfortable defending, anticipating, and/or taking part in ground fighting. A Boxer would just be ignorant doing what he knew.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:16 PM   #32
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

damn that left hook put him OUT hahaha
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:19 PM   #33
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by MetalMandible View Post
I highly doubt that you've done any sort of MMA if you don't know that MMA trainers prefer to take your normal Boxing stance and square it up so that it's easier to sprawl on a shot. There are two things wrong with the traditional Boxing stance for MMA.

1. Standing at a perpendicular angle to your opponent hands him a single leg takedown and prevents you being able to transition to a sprawl position as quickly.

2. Having a heavy lead leg leaves you open to low kicks. You can't bring it up in time to check a roundhouse.

That is a Fact.
Come on man... I do know that. It offers a single leg, a leg kick, or a push kick/stomp to the knee. It makes sense for a new trainee too. What is "more square" though? Many prolific Boxers fight "square", Foreman, Frazier, Tyson, W. Wright, J. Clottey, etc... The point is:

1. I don't know of any basic Boxing stance that put you perpendicular to your opponent because you complicate delivering the right hand. If you are attempting to say guys like Mayweather represent "Basic Boxing"? I would have to disagree.

2. I don't think any Boxer should have a heavy lead leg. That is pretty universal for all fighting. Weight should be mostly on the rear leg ALWAYS. Weight would be transferred to the lead leg ONLY when following through on a rear hand shot at which point you would angle off and fire a lead hand shot to transition back to putting the weight on your rear foot.

I am NOT knocking MMA. I like the sport. I just don't see any special MMA Boxing Stances. I just see guys who are fully prepared to take it to the ground, or defend against takedowns if it goes there so can Box fluidly. They have the training to keep the fight on their terms, i.e., Boxing.

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Last edited by bald_head_slick; 07-03-2012 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:03 PM   #34
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by bald_head_slick View Post
Come on man... I do know that. It offers a single leg, a leg kick, or a push kick/stomp to the knee. It makes sense for a new trainee too. What is "more square" though? Many prolific Boxers fight "square", Foreman, Frazier, Tyson, W. Wright, J. Clottey, etc... The point is:

MMA fighters often stand completely squared up. You don't do that in Boxing and none of those guys you listed do.

1. I don't know of any basic Boxing stance that put you perpendicular to your opponent because you complicate delivering the right hand. If you are attempting to say guys like Mayweather represent "Basic Boxing"? I would have to disagree.

Again, I didn't say standing at a 90 degree angle, I said more perpendicular than an MMA fighter.

2. I don't think any Boxer should have a heavy lead leg. That is pretty universal for all fighting. Weight should be mostly on the rear leg ALWAYS. Weight would be transferred to the lead leg ONLY when following through on a rear hand shot at which point you would angle off and fire a lead hand shot to transition back to putting the weight on your rear foot.

A Boxer's lead leg is heavier than a Thai Boxer's because the Thai Boxer stands upright and leaning back in the traditional stance. This is so you can quickly lift the leg and check a low kick. It is obviously not the best way to defend against punches but in a Muay Thai fight the emphasis is typically on kicking and clinchwork. BJ Penn, Rampage Jackson, and Nick Diaz are MMA fighters who primarily Box on the feet and stand more similar (obviously not exactly like) to a Boxer. None of them can defend a low kick particularly well.

I am NOT knocking MMA. I like the sport. I just don't see any special MMA Boxing Stances. I just see guys who are fully prepared to take it to the ground, or defend against takedowns if it goes there so can Box fluidly. They have the training to keep the fight on their terms, i.e., Boxing.

Go to an MMA gym and find out. If you don't have the time to do that go buy one of the do-it-yourself books by Couture or Greg Jackson. It's all there.
End of.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:07 AM   #35
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Bullshit. With training, a boxer definitely has more of a chance to cross over if he truly wanted to. A strong puncher with good durability just needs to a learn a good take defense. A lot harder than it sounds, but a chinny MMA fighter crossing over a sport that's a specialized art has zero chance. Throw a prime Tyson in MMA and he would always have the potential to be lethal if he ever connects.
Have you actually tried this? Personally? I suggest you do so and you'll appreciate both sports more. It's a lot easier to dance away from a good boxer, jab and grab (like Ruiz for instance) than to stop a better grappler from taking you down. You have to move your whole body out of the way and there is no "covering up" in grappling. If you get caught, you're going down. Just because a one punch knockout seems more definitive than a guy getting taken down and totally manhandled until he taps out due to strikes or gets subbed doesn't make it less dominant. If you consider the possibility of a wild knockout punch on the feet it is in fact more dominant to have your opponent on the ground where he literally can barely hurt you much less knock you out.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:13 AM   #36
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by MetalMandible View Post
MMA fighters often stand completely squared up. You don't do that in Boxing and none of those guys you listed do.
Boxers do as well if that is their style, e.g., Tyson. MMA is a rule set not a style. Do what you like, just stay within the rule set.

Effective combination fist striking leads you to blade (angle) your body to varying extents depending on your weapons of choice, i.e., crosses, hooks, combinations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMandible View Post
Again, I didn't say standing at a 90 degree angle, I said more perpendicular than an MMA fighter.
Me neither, if your weapon of choice is your hands? You stand a specific way. More or less perpendicular is a personal/coaching choice not a rule. Even in Boxing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMandible View Post
A Boxer's lead leg is heavier than a Thai Boxer's because the Thai Boxer stands upright and leaning back in the traditional stance. This is so you can quickly lift the leg and check a low kick. It is obviously not the best way to defend against punches but in a Muay Thai fight the emphasis is typically on kicking and clinchwork. BJ Penn, Rampage Jackson, and Nick Diaz are MMA fighters who primarily Box on the feet and stand more similar (obviously not exactly like) to a Boxer. None of them can defend a low kick particularly well.
A Greco Roman wrestler's lead leg is as heavy or heavier than a Boxer's. I don't get your point? The more skilled a fighter is at take-down defense and ground fighting the more "true" he would be able to practice his desired form of striking. Silva can use MT because he is perfectly fine rolling on his back and fighting there.

My point is that all those guys you listed stand in perfectly acceptable Boxing stances not "MMA Boxing stances". Every pic I showed is of a guy with a bladed stance working effective Boxing/fist striking techniques in a quite acceptable Boxing (Puncher) stance. They can do so only because they are skilled ground fighters. If they can or can't defend a technique is a different topic as they all are/were very successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMandible View Post
Go to an MMA gym and find out. If you don't have the time to do that go buy one of the do-it-yourself books by Couture or Greg Jackson. It's all there.
I train at an Boxing/MT/MMA gym. Actually the MMA(wrestling/BJJ) coach is a former UFC fighter. This has nothing to do with that though.

There is no special "MMA Boxing Stance". If you want to Box (KB, wrestle, BJJ, MT, TKD, etc...), you just have to be ready for the advantages/disadvantages it brings in the cage or on the mat and tweak it according to your abilities/preferences and/or learn how to nullify attacks against it.

MMA is RULES not a form of fighting. They are all using techniques and Mixing the Martial Arts. Granted, it may very well get their one day. MMA is transcending the meaning of the words that form the acronym.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:36 AM   #37
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

In November of 1993, Art Jimmerson faced Royce Gracie. Art Jimmerson was a National Golden Gloves Champion at middleweight, and was ranked in the IBF's top 10 as a professional. Jimmerson's boxing record was 29-5 when he faced Royce Gracie.

Gracie comes from a renowned fighting family, but was no where close to being considered one of the highest rated bjj practitioners in the world.

Here is what happened:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3-g84GMNSc[/ame]


Oh, did someone mention Ray Mercer? Watch what happened when he faced Kimbo Slice. Kimbo wasn't even a professional mma fighter. Kimbo had just gone through an mma training camp.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oihc7Rmfp0U[/ame]
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:38 AM   #38
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by tottenham19 View Post
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Melvin Guillard is a top 15 UFC LW, and has been ranked as high as #6 by MMA websites.
James Countryman, though he hasn't fought in a few years, now has a 14-1 record. That isn't the record of a journeyman. Plus, and I don't know the answer, where was Melvin in the MMA world seven and a half years ago when this fight happened? He would have been what then 22 then? Guys do sometimes get better as the years go by.

Last edited by nfc90210; 07-05-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:24 AM   #39
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

ufc legend.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:03 PM   #40
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by Zombieguy View Post
I thought Randy Couture leaning on a cage and hugging James Toney for 5 minutes already proved that MMA guys are tougher than boxers?

Dana White told me so.

leaning on a cage???

wtf fight did you watch? At no point were they ever near a cage and in less than 14 seconds James Toney was taken down, for the next minute he was pounded out and mercy subbeda at 1:30 into the first round.

Same thing would happen to any pro boxer if he ever stepped into the cage without any significant time and proper training in mma/wrestling/bjj.

Last edited by ptm; 07-04-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:05 PM   #41
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

seriously, other than hoping and wishing for a lucky punch, how does any Boxer stand a chance against a guy with years and years of takedown experience with thousands and thousands of reps in? Additionally an MMA fighter spends a good good portion of his training learning to defend strikes.



get a clue people, it's MUCH easier to defend a punch than it is to defend a takedown.


it's like we just took a time machine back to the 90's or something. sheesh

Last edited by ptm; 07-04-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by tottenham19 View Post
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Melvin Guillard is a top 15 UFC LW, and has been ranked as high as #6 by MMA websites.
Guillard is a wrestler you nonce. Of course he would lose a boxing match to a boxer.
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Bullshit. With training, a boxer definitely has more of a chance to cross over if he truly wanted to. A strong puncher with good durability just needs to a learn a good take defense. A lot harder than it sounds, but a chinny MMA fighter crossing over a sport that's a specialized art has zero chance. Throw a prime Tyson in MMA and he would always have the potential to be lethal if he ever connects.
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFN_IMjuWnw[/ame]
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:22 PM   #44
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

i was expecting a streetfight, its a boxing fight whats the big surprise

not thread worthy you bellend thread starter
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: Top 155lb UFC striker KNOCKED OUT COLD by journeyman boxer

Boxing vs MMA

Surely this shite should be in the lounge...

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