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Old 07-09-2012, 08:37 PM   #1
davidwatts
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Default if jon jones never fought again.

would he be considered one of the greatest of his weight?

quite a few people here have mentioned that they think he is one of the greats, i personally don't agree, yet, but if he suddenly retired how would history place him?
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

He needs to fight Anderson Sillva at 205

If he wins that, he needs to move up asap

If he does that, and beats a solid string of opponents (JDS, Cormier, Cain, Carwin Bigfoot)..... then his place in history is cemented
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

His recent run has already secured his place as one of the greats.

Much like Shogun did in 2005, if he had never fought again he would still be considered one of the greats.

If Jones hasn't done enough already to be considered one of the ATGs at 205, I really can't imagine what needs to be done to secure a spot.
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

i really rate machida and jones handled him with relative ease, he forced a meek surrender out of rampage and very nearly performed a babality on shogun. he is already one of the greats.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

He's run through everybody. I like how Joe Rogan put it "it's like a man vs boys when Jones fights" He's still so young and can keep improving he is 205 GOAT.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:28 AM   #6
davidwatts
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

i must apply different standards to what an all-time great must be.
i can't see how that applies to jones yet.

in the ufc he has beaten:

André Gusmão
Stephan Bonnar
Jake O'Brien
Brandon Vera
Vladimir Matyushenko
Ryan Bader
no, they don't make him great.

Maurício Rua
Quinton Jackson
Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans

i imagine the fact he beat these last 4 makes him an all-time great?
personally i'd take rampage out of it as he was too old anyway.
he's beaten some names, but some other fighters have beaten ex-champs too. anyway he has to have longevity imo.
an all-time great should be just that, GREAT!
jones isn't GREAT at the moment, and it shocks me that so many people feel he is.
silva and fedor are all-time greats, jones isn't with them.

Last edited by davidwatts; 07-10-2012 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwatts View Post
i must apply different standards to what an all-time great must be.
i can't see how that applies to jones yet.

in the ufc he has beaten:

André Gusmão
Stephan Bonnar
Jake O'Brien
Brandon Vera
Vladimir Matyushenko
Ryan Bader
no, they don't make him great.

Maurício Rua
Quinton Jackson
Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans

i imagine the fact he beat these last 4 makes him an all-time great?
personally i'd take rampage out of it as he was too old anyway.
he's beaten a few names, but lots of fighters have. plus he has to have longevity imo.
an all-time great should be just that, GREAT!
jones isn't GREAT at the moment, and it shocks me that so many people feel he is.
silva and fedor are all-time greats, jones isn't with them.

Dude Jackson said he never trained as hard for a fight in his life..... Don't dismiss his win over Rampage.

Obviously since that loss Rampage has been lucklustre which is understandable.

Maurício Rua - Devastating win
Lyoto Machida - Equally devastating win
Evans - not such a great win but other factors may have been at play.

Last edited by kel; 07-10-2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwatts View Post
i must apply different standards to what an all-time great must be.
i can't see how that applies to jones yet.

in the ufc he has beaten:

André Gusmão
Stephan Bonnar
Jake O'Brien
Brandon Vera
Vladimir Matyushenko
Ryan Bader
no, they don't make him great.

Maurício Rua
Quinton Jackson
Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans

i imagine the fact he beat these last 4 makes him an all-time great?
personally i'd take rampage out of it as he was too old anyway.
he's beaten a few names, but lots of fighters have. plus he has to have longevity imo.
an all-time great should be just that, GREAT!
jones isn't GREAT at the moment, and it shocks me that so many people feel he is.
silva and fedor are all-time greats, jones isn't with them.

no he hasnt beaten these guys, hes ****ing annihilated them.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:49 AM   #9
Thom
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwatts View Post
i must apply different standards to what an all-time great must be.
i can't see how that applies to jones yet.

in the ufc he has beaten:

André Gusmão
Stephan Bonnar
Jake O'Brien
Brandon Vera
Vladimir Matyushenko
Ryan Bader
no, they don't make him great.

Maurício Rua
Quinton Jackson
Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans

i imagine the fact he beat these last 4 makes him an all-time great?
personally i'd take rampage out of it as he was too old anyway.
he's beaten a few names, but lots of fighters have. plus he has to have longevity imo.
an all-time great should be just that, GREAT!
jones isn't GREAT at the moment, and it shocks me that so many people feel he is.
silva and fedor are all-time greats, jones isn't with them.

Say what? Who's finished and, for the most part, dominated four top 10 guys including three top five guys within a calendar year? How many guys have beaten four former champs in a row and finished three of them? How long did 205 go without a champ who made multiple defenses before Jones?

You're ****ing joking if you think a lot of guys have done what Jones has. Even though he wasn't facing top contenders before he fought Bader, you can't just dismiss the way that he handled his early opposition in the UFC especially considering the length of time that he's been training MMA.

FYI plenty of MMA fans started calling Shogun one of greatest 205ers after his 2005 PRIDE run. So the fact that Jones is receiving similar praise based on what he's done since the beginning of last year shouldn't be surprising at all. Keep in mind that MMA as it's currently organized is a very young sport. If Jones wins two more fights, he'll already be tied with Ortiz for the most LHW title defenses. He's clearly not in the same ballpark as Silva or Fedor in terms of longevity, but he's already established himself as one of the best 205ers ever. I don't know how that can be disputed.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

i'm obviously not saying jones isn't any good, he is VERY good imo. he may in fact be heading towards being an all-time great too, however in my mind he isn't there yet.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom View Post
Say what? Who's finished and, for the most part, dominated four top 10 guys including three top five guys within a calendar year? How many guys have beaten four former champs in a row and finished three of them? How long did 205 go without a champ who made multiple defenses before Jones?

You're ****ing joking if you think a lot of guys have done what Jones has. Even though he wasn't facing top contenders before he fought Bader, you can't just dismiss the way that he handled his early opposition in the UFC especially considering the length of time that he's been training MMA.

FYI plenty of MMA fans started calling Shogun one of greatest 205ers after his 2005 PRIDE run. So the fact that Jones is receiving similar praise based on what he's done since the beginning of last year shouldn't be surprising at all. Keep in mind that MMA as it's currently organized is a very young sport. If Jones wins two more fights, he'll already be tied with Ortiz for the most LHW title defenses. He's clearly not in the same ballpark as Silva or Fedor in terms of longevity, but he's already established himself as one of the best 205ers ever. I don't know how that can be disputed.
I would put jones up there but i can;t see how you can compare the jones run with shogun's tournament run, jones has had 3-4 solid to good wins on the run, but the tournament was stacked with top guys and shogun had to beat two on one night.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primate View Post
His recent run has already secured his place as one of the greats.

Much like Shogun did in 2005, if he had never fought again he would still be considered one of the greats.

If Jones hasn't done enough already to be considered one of the ATGs at 205, I really can't imagine what needs to be done to secure a spot.
Well said, agree completely
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dillinja View Post
I would put jones up there but i can;t see how you can compare the jones run with shogun's tournament run, jones has had 3-4 solid to good wins on the run, but the tournament was stacked with top guys and shogun had to beat two on one night.
Not to take anything away from Shogun, but in that run he had a very close war with Rogerio, and beat a Arona that had went the distance with Arona that same night. Jones tore through all of his opponents last year, and the most trouble he was in was maybe one clean shot from Machida.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:13 AM   #14
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

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Not to take anything away from Shogun, but in that run he had a very close war with Rogerio, and beat a Arona that had went the distance with Arona that same night. Jones tore through all of his opponents last year, and the most trouble he was in was maybe one clean shot from Machida.
In that sense though i would go for shoguns opponents being better at that time though, nog beat dan henderson to get to the next round, jones is fighting hendo in his next fight seven years later.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: if jon jones never fought again.

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Originally Posted by dillinja View Post
In that sense though i would go for shoguns opponents being better at that time though, nog beat dan henderson to get to the next round, jones is fighting hendo in his next fight seven years later.
Hendo is coming off one of the best streaks of his career, including wins over Shogun and Fedor
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