Vitali Klitschko vs Rocky Marciano

[Shake]

Originally Posted by Ali_

Who cares.

Originally Posted by LittleRed

Who doesn't?

Who most certainly does!

[Shake]

Originally Posted by El-Mafioso

Rocky would destroy clinchkos body and than rape him with hard left hooks and right cross

I hate my vivid imagination.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by Azzer85

Maybe i wrote that post, purely to piss u off

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Agree with the Vitali-Byrd cards? A complete nutthugger comment or you haven't seen it, Byrd was backing Vitali up and scoring better punches from the 5th onwards

'Coming at someone' like Sanders/Hide is not a pressure fighter. Arreola/Chisora are pressure fighters so it hasn't

We're basically exposing Vitali's winning record in his prime was against C Class opposition, hence the problem in this match up




As for you she-grant I know boxing, Marciano skill wise maybe better skills wise than Lennox it's a close call, Lennox is much bigger, athletic, stronger and powerful but skill wise it's close. Vitali quit against and maybe up an excuse, Vitali has a history of lying when he loses or performs badly - he lied about Maskeev stopping him in the amateur, he lied about been knocked out by Pele Reid in kickboxing, he made up a bogus excuse against Chisora because he was backed up all night



Vitali was caught with roids and DQ'ed for it, Lennox never was. Vitali is also more suspicious going from 190-200lbs to a solid 230 in about 2 years, Lennox was always a natural SHW

Liston on roids would obviously be better, I still think Lennox would win, P4P a better boxer imo

Good points made here - these are the things that play on my mind about Vitali to be honest - everything above and plus the fact that he does seem to spend half his time showing them the jab rather than actually getting it in there and throwing it properly?? Is it just me who thinks that?? And also that every time I watch him I'm thinkin "I've never seen any champion dominate with so little? I could look at any of his defences and it wouldn't differ any from any of the others - he takes the same approach everytime - he doesn't do anything differently and for me is not spectacular in any particular area and never amazes me and some pretty pedestrian fighters have not exactly struggled against him - Chisora being one and Byrd being another and people like Adamek and Sonowski never looked out classed as such? Really the only genuinely ATG class fighter he ever fought was fat old tired Lennox Lewis - and surprise surprise he's the only guy who gave him a life and death fight and backed him up most of the time and really did hurt him - that fight to me shows the difference in championship class - real class - and just being a giant guy who makes the most of his height and reach - a real great fighter is just too good for Vitali Klitschko - and this is what I see as being the problem in this fight - Marciano is not just a great fighter...he's a legendary fighter and Vitali knows his limitations arrive after you get past the size of him

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Agree with the Vitali-Byrd cards? A complete nutthugger comment or you haven't seen it, Byrd was backing Vitali up and scoring better punches from the 5th onwards

'Coming at someone' like Sanders/Hide is not a pressure fighter. Arreola/Chisora are pressure fighters so it hasn't

We're basically exposing Vitali's winning record in his prime was against C Class opposition, hence the problem in this match up




As for you she-grant I know boxing, Marciano skill wise maybe better skills wise than Lennox it's a close call, Lennox is much bigger, athletic, stronger and powerful but skill wise it's close. Vitali quit against and maybe up an excuse, Vitali has a history of lying when he loses or performs badly - he lied about Maskeev stopping him in the amateur, he lied about been knocked out by Pele Reid in kickboxing, he made up a bogus excuse against Chisora because he was backed up all night



Vitali was caught with roids and DQ'ed for it, Lennox never was. Vitali is also more suspicious going from 190-200lbs to a solid 230 in about 2 years, Lennox was always a natural SHW

Liston on roids would obviously be better, I still think Lennox would win, P4P a better boxer imo

Vitali was winning the Byrd fight hands down. I simply can not see it any other way. This does not mean Vitali won the fight. No, he lost. Anything can happen in a fight. Part of Marciano's perfect record is that he was lucky (and that he was able to toggle back and forth from amateur to pro). Part of Vitali's record is luck, both good and bad.

He won the Chisora fight by a huge margin. He was the boss at 40 years old, an age by which Marciano had retired and gotten fat for almost a decade. Using the Chisora performance as any basis for your argument is desperate both because of the wild distortions required to make a guy who won 9 rounds look poor and that it dissects a 40 year old fighter as though he were prime.

A Six foot Seven guy who debuted at 235 is not a natural super heavyweight? I will need a while to digest that one.

Vitali would simply wear down the stocky, short-limbed Marciano with jabs and rights long before Marciano could accumulate damage to do anything Vit. And the elder Klit would probably break Marciano's notoriously weak back with his strength and weight. I would bet the mortgage on it.

[RockysSplitNose]

Yeah i can accept you saying he won against Byrd and he won against Chisora etc etc but he didnt win outright did he? It wasn't like he put on a world class performance Chisora was actually pretty competitive with him - that to me puts serious question marks against Vitali Chisora isn't even a blip on ATG-ness! Couple that with the mullering Lennox put on him - I know Vit is getting on now but still he is in magnificent shape still and he doesn't fight any differently to anytime in the past - I just don't think he's that amazing - without the size he'd be nothing - can you imagine what Lennox Lewis would've done to Chisora?? That's the difference between greatness and just being a good giant heavyweight - real greatness to me would overcome Vitali for me

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Yeah i can accept you saying he won against Byrd and he won against Chisora etc etc but he didnt win outright did he? It wasn't like he put on a world class performance Chisora was actually pretty competitive with him - that to me puts serious question marks against Vitali Chisora isn't even a blip on ATG-ness! Couple that with the mullering Lennox put on him - I know Vit is getting on now but still he is in magnificent shape still and he doesn't fight any differently to anytime in the past - I just don't think he's that amazing - without the size he'd be nothing - can you imagine what Lennox Lewis would've done to Chisora?? That's the difference between greatness and just being a good giant heavyweight - real greatness to me would overcome Vitali for me

He did not beat Byrd. He lost due to injury, just as Marciano would have lost to Charles if that nose injury happened in the 1990's.

And how many times do I have to repeat, Vitali was FORTY YEARS OLD when he dominated Chisora. F O R T Y! Are we comparing prime to prime or prime to geriatric?

And while we are supposedly picking poor performances, what would Vitali have done to butterball Don ****ell?

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

Yeah i can accept you saying he won against Byrd and he won against Chisora etc etc but he didnt win outright did he? It wasn't like he put on a world class performance Chisora was actually pretty competitive with him - that to me puts serious question marks against Vitali Chisora isn't even a blip on ATG-ness! Couple that with the mullering Lennox put on him - I know Vit is getting on now but still he is in magnificent shape still and he doesn't fight any differently to anytime in the past - I just don't think he's that amazing - without the size he'd be nothing - can you imagine what Lennox Lewis would've done to Chisora?? That's the difference between greatness and just being a good giant heavyweight - real greatness to me would overcome Vitali for me

I'm having trouble following your train of thought here, honestly, Rock.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by Seamus

He did not beat Byrd. He lost due to injury, just as Marciano would have lost to Charles if that nose injury happened in the 1990's.

And how many times do I have to repeat, Vitali was FORTY YEARS OLD when he dominated Chisora. F O R T Y! Are we comparing prime to prime or prime to geriatric?

And while we are supposedly picking poor performances, what would Vitali have done to butterball Don ****ell?

I know Byrd won but really I don't think Byrd actually 'winning' counts for that much under the circumstances - Vitali was winning for my money but the thing that does play on my mind is that Vitali again wasn't exactly dominating or looking a totally different class to Byrd in doing so - and in most of his defences he hasn't looked a totally different class to many (if any) of his fairly pedestrian challengers?? On the age thing I must reiterate that Klit still isn't showing age per sa? Not for me - he's in amazing shape (but part of me is convinced he's juiced) but he isn't fighting any differently at all for me so his age is of no consequence at this stage - plus yeah Don ****ell wasn't in Rocks class whatsoever but look what Rock did to him!?? He half killed him he absolutely murdered him - whereas say Chisora was, you know, not doing too bad actually against Vitali and ****ell was probably a better boxer than Derek?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

I know Byrd won but really I don't think Byrd actually 'winning' counts for that much under the circumstances - Vitali was winning for my money but the thing that does play on my mind is that Vitali again wasn't exactly dominating or looking a totally different class to Byrd in doing so - and in most of his defences he hasn't looked a totally different class to many (if any) of his fairly pedestrian challengers?? On the age thing I must reiterate that Klit still isn't showing age per sa? Not for me - he's in amazing shape (but part of me is convinced he's juiced) but he isn't fighting any differently at all for me so his age is of no consequence at this stage - plus yeah Don ****ell wasn't in Rocks class whatsoever but look what Rock did to him!?? He half killed him he absolutely murdered him - whereas say Chisora was, you know, not doing too bad actually against Vitali and ****ell was probably a better boxer than Derek?

a) Byrd was really good and of a style completely different than Marciano.

b) Vitali has only lost a handful of round in his entire career so I don't know how more dominant he could be.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Seamus

a) Byrd was really good and of a style completely different than Marciano.

b) Vitali has only lost a handful of round in his entire career so I don't know how more dominant he could be.

A truly dominant champion crushes his opponents, sees them driven before him, and hears the lamentation of their women.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

A truly dominant champion crushes his opponents, sees them driven before him, and hears the lamentation of their women.

Then Genghis Khan is the only true champion.

I can stand by that.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Then Genghis Khan is the only true champion.

I can stand by that.

No love for Alexander of Macedonia? Or the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V?

[manbearpig]

Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose

but it still in my head that Vit has still not beat anyone close to Rockys pedigree or legendary status whereas Rock did beat people who were vastly more talented fighters than Klit but that size??????????????SPPPRHTARGLARDEMPSEYMARCIANONUMBERONE!!!!???!?!?!?!!!??!??)

I thought competition faced didn't mean anything when ranking fighters?


If your opinion on this has miraculously changed, how does your heavyweight list look these days?

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

No love for Alexander of Macedonia? Or the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V?

Do Alexander or Charles V have 16 million descendants?

[url]********news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/0214_030214_genghis.html[/url]

Or as Pinker's Better Angels of Our Nature contends that Khan led the bloodiest period of human existence?

No, KHAN KO EVERYONE.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Do Alexander or Charles V have 16 million descendants?

[url]********news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/0214_030214_genghis.html[/url]

Or as Pinker's Better Angels of Our Nature contends that Khan led the bloodiest period of human existence?

No, KHAN KO EVERYONE.

Alexander had a short prime! He was done by the time he was 33, had he lived as long as Khan this conversation would be different. Alexander beat.everyone, every way possible he wasn't a one trick pony like Khan.