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Old 07-12-2012, 08:34 PM   #16
Clinton
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

Naseem Hamed.Overrated at everything except being a dick.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:01 PM   #17
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Hamed's power was legit imo.

The guy could barely box or slug otherwise, but got by on pure power(and to a lesser extent good speed).
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

Overrated is two of my favorites, Joe Frazier and Jack Dempsey. Both generally overrated in terms of power.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

And Benn, Jackson, Foster, Gomez, and McClellan were most definitely NOT overrated...

I can't believe what I was reading...
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

And I'll say this: Tyson is overrated by casual fans and those with a pedestrian knowledge, while at the same time underrated by many historians and people who know their shit...
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:56 PM   #21
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

I'm a bigger fan of finishers than supposed power brokers.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

Bonecrusher Smith
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:23 AM   #23
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

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Originally Posted by young griffo View Post
I don't know how Evander Holyfield is underrated as a puncher Frank because he simply wasn't a very big puncher at Heavyweight and doesn't merit a ranking as one.

He scored some decent stoppages but Douglas aside (and that was a virtual quit job) I don't recall him scoring any one punch KO's against decent opposition. Add to that he went 5 years without a single stoppage win at one point and during that period couldn't even put away a blown up Lt Heavy in Czyz and proven china chins in Stewart and Moorer. The Tyson stoppage shows that he could wear someone down but this victory says more about Tysons deficiencies than Evanders big punch.

What Holyfield was good at was punching with very fast, accurate combinations which not many Heavyweights can do half as well as him. Watch his display against Foreman as he reeled off beautiful text book combination after combination to really appreciate how effective this was. Still as impressive as this was he couldn't dent George's chin either.
And what about putting down Mercer , Bowe and stopping (due 2 a cheat but still managing it eventually) Bert Cooper and then Qawi #2 , James Tillis , Pinklon Thomas , Michael Dokes , Moorer #2 ? and having Moorer down twice while nearly dying himself in d ring , and not as a result of Moorer's power in their 1st fight ?
such a featherfisted puncher that he was . All of u uprising against my mentioning him in addition 2 all of it and more is Xactly a proof of how underrated he is .

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Originally Posted by sas6789 View Post
Julian Jackson's power overrated?
Yes , @ top level who did he ever stop ? 34 years old Buster Drayton , china chinned Terry Norris (whom i'm having troubles with myself even mentioning him as top level) , finished Dennis Milton and Herol Graham whom was also KDd by Sumbu Kalambay ? and by Eubanks in sparing ?
Jackson's opposition was about mediocre . He was a harder puncher than average p4p but i really doubt that top 5 like most have him .

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Everything in red is nonsense.

Julian Jackson and Bob Foster are two of the most concussive single-shot hitters in history. Evander Holyfield ain't, at any weight, ever. And G-Man was a mighty puncher, and everyone knew it and knows it, unless they're idiots.
Bob Foster ? 4 KOing 40 years old Richard Ihetu ? Foster fought crap opposition , weakest lightheavyweight division of any era . No rematches with Mauro Mina or Doug Jones @ 175 .
G-Man was a good puncher , but ppl still don't Xpect him 2 stop any1 if he was in his prime . And yes , they R idiots which is Y he is underrated .
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:41 AM   #24
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Ernie Shavers' power is almost universally regarded as the hardest puncher by any one who has foughy him. Ali and Holmes both ATG agree. Sure he had a hell of a time landing a punch but whenhe did he hurt you.
Definitly not overrated.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:31 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
And what about putting down Mercer , Bowe and stopping (due 2 a cheat but still managing it eventually) Bert Cooper and then Qawi #2 , James Tillis , Pinklon Thomas , Michael Dokes , Moorer #2 ? and having Moorer down twice while nearly dying himself in d ring , and not as a result of Moorer's power in their 1st fight ?
such a featherfisted puncher that he was . All of u uprising against my mentioning him in addition 2 all of it and more is Xactly a proof of how underrated he is .
The Mercer KD was as impressive as it was unexpected but considering Mercers' chin would later hold up under Lennox Lewis' and had previously withstood Morrisons bombs I'm going to dismiss this as an aberration.

Bowe's chin was proven against who exactly? Not that great a feat when you see Golota bouncing Bowe off the canvas and sending him into retirement two fights later.

Tillis and Thomas were washed up when Holyfield beat them and even then he hit them with every thing but the kitchen sink and he still didn't stop them they both retired in their corners.So thats a shit example of Holyfields underrated power and is actualy more proof that he wasn't a big puncher at all.

Dokes? Great fight but again a give and take war against a guy past his prime and although the stoppage showcased Evanders' desire for victory it didn't show him as a big puncher.

Cooper was a journeyman who got stopped against every top guy he fought (Foreman,Bowe,Moorer) and even then Evander had to have a war to put him away. Why? Because Holyfield lacked the pop to take lesser fighters like Cooper out early.

Again he couldn't keep glass chinned Michael Moorer on the floor and even in the second fight ,Moorer was stopped on his feet. Remember this is the same Moorer KTFO with single shots by true big punchers like Foreman and Tua.

Holyfield was a great fighter who was skilled,fast and had a massive heart but as a puncher he was only decent and I think people rank him accordingly for that.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

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Originally Posted by young griffo View Post
The Mercer KD was as impressive as it was unexpected but considering Mercers' chin would later hold up under Lennox Lewis' and had previously withstood Morrisons bombs I'm going to dismiss this as an aberration.

Bowe's chin was proven against who exactly? Not that great a feat when you see Golota bouncing Bowe off the canvas and sending him into retirement two fights later.

Tillis and Thomas were washed up when Holyfield beat them and even then he hit them with every thing but the kitchen sink and he still didn't stop them they both retired in their corners.So thats a shit example of Holyfields underrated power and is actualy more proof that he wasn't a big puncher at all.

Dokes? Great fight but again a give and take war against a guy past his prime and although the stoppage showcased Evanders' desire for victory it didn't show him as a big puncher.

Cooper was a journeyman who got stopped against every top guy he fought (Foreman,Bowe,Moorer) and even then Evander had to have a war to put him away. Why? Because Holyfield lacked the pop to take lesser fighters like Cooper out early.

Again he couldn't keep glass chinned Michael Moorer on the floor and even in the second fight ,Moorer was stopped on his feet. Remember this is the same Moorer KTFO with single shots by true big punchers like Foreman and Tua.

Holyfield was a great fighter who was skilled,fast and had a massive heart but as a puncher he was only decent and I think people rank him accordingly for that.
So because Holyfield did not hit as hard as Tua and Foreman he was not a big puncher at heavyweight ? how many achieved more destruction and KDs than he had ? Tyson with his textbook elbows ? Foreman with his size and thickness ? Tua with his monstrous power ? Joe Louis by fighting almost Xclusively bums , undersized or shot fighters or a combination of these 3 and then drawing d color line and avoiding d real dangers in his weak division ?
If u want 2 consider Tua & Foreman as bigger punchers than Holyfield then i agree with it , but does it mean that Holyfield was not a big puncher at heavyweight ? just because he wasn't top 5 ?
And u forgot 2 dismiss d Qawi #2 KO in your reply post .
I also completely failed 2 understand d idea in your dismissing of d Mercer KD .
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:14 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
So because Holyfield did not hit as hard as Tua and Foreman he was not a big puncher at heavyweight ? how many achieved more destruction and KDs than he had ? Tyson with his textbook elbows ? Foreman with his size and thickness ? Tua with his monstrous power ? Joe Louis by fighting almost Xclusively bums , undersized or shot fighters or a combination of these 3 and then drawing d color line and avoiding d real dangers in his weak division ?
If u want 2 consider Tua & Foreman as bigger punchers than Holyfield then i agree with it , but does it mean that Holyfield was not a big puncher at heavyweight ? just because he wasn't top 5 ?
And u forgot 2 dismiss d Qawi #2 KO in your reply post .
I also completely failed 2 understand d idea in your dismissing of d Mercer KD .
Sorry I missed Qawi but that was a quit similar to Douglas. Remember Qawi had absorbed way more shots like that in their first fight without looking remotely hurt yet he folded meekly in the rematch when he looked like he could've beaten the count. Qawi knew that Holyfield was better than him and he didn't want to go through what he did in the first fight.

Maybe I shouldn't dismiss the Mercer KD but my point is that Ray stood up to the bombs of bigger men and punchers than Evander before and after so I think its strange that he was floored by Holy and maybe it was a fluke punch,kind of like Nunn-Kalambay.

Plenty hit harder than Holyfield at Heavy that's not even open to debate, you don't have the Vaughn Beans and ancient Larry Holmes (who Tyson who you reckon was overrated managed to easily KO) of the world taking you the distance when you're the world champion.

The reason he got the results he did and the stoppages he did wasn't because of some hidden resource of punching power that the rest of us can't see but you can but because he was a terrific fighter who was single minded in pursuit of victory and whose will to win always remained after the other guys will to win broke.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:02 AM   #28
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

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Originally Posted by young griffo View Post
Sorry I missed Qawi but that was a quit similar to Douglas. Remember Qawi had absorbed way more shots like that in their first fight without looking remotely hurt yet he folded meekly in the rematch when he looked like he could've beaten the count. Qawi knew that Holyfield was better than him and he didn't want to go through what he did in the first fight.

Maybe I shouldn't dismiss the Mercer KD but my point is that Ray stood up to the bombs of bigger men and punchers than Evander before and after so I think its strange that he was floored by Holy and maybe it was a fluke punch,kind of like Nunn-Kalambay.

Plenty hit harder than Holyfield at Heavy that's not even open to debate, you don't have the Vaughn Beans and ancient Larry Holmes (who Tyson who you reckon was overrated managed to easily KO) of the world taking you the distance when you're the world champion.

The reason he got the results he did and the stoppages he did wasn't because of some hidden resource of punching power that the rest of us can't see but you can but because he was a terrific fighter who was single minded in pursuit of victory and whose will to win always remained after the other guys will to win broke.
IDK about Douglas being a quit , but Qawi #2 certainly wasn't . Also , Holyfield was not any better , just much bigger , stronger and younger .
Qawi hadn't gone through anything in their 1st fight , other than having 2 stand 4 15 rds (with sitting in breaks in between each 2 rds) and having 2 move his upper body . Qawi barely took a punch in their 1st fight . D difference from d rematch was/is that in d rematch Qawi was older than in d 1st fight , Holyfield bigger and stronger and more Xperienced and most importantly landed flush which he couldn't mange during d enire 15 rds of their 1st fight . No quitting in Qawi vs Holyfield #2 .
There has never been a fluke in this sport , and Nunn vs Kalambay as well as Maskaev vs Rahman #1 & #2 R included in this statement .
Neither was Mercer's decision loss in his 1st fight with Fergusson which in fact was repeated in their 2nd fight and neither was Greg Page's loss 2 Mark Wills which was repeated in their rematch . same with Collins over Benn #1 & #2 . No 1 fluke ever .



Nothing strange about Mercer going down vs Holyfield Xcept from Mercer's chin being overrated and Holyfield's power underrated . U had/ve no Xplanation 2 it .

I don't underrate Tyson's elbowing ability , I only doubt his clean punching ability . Did he ever land a left hook in a real pro fight ?
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:20 AM   #29
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Default Re: Overrated Punching Power

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Yes , @ top level who did he ever stop ? 34 years old Buster Drayton , china chinned Terry Norris (whom i'm having troubles with myself even mentioning him as top level) , finished Dennis Milton and Herol Graham whom was also KDd by Sumbu Kalambay ? and by Eubanks in sparing ?
Jackson's opposition was about mediocre . He was a harder puncher than average p4p but i really doubt that top 5 like most have him .
Ok Terry Norris may not have been the best ever but he was still a double world champion and had never been stopped before he ran into Jackson. If you mean the first fight with Kalambay, Graham wasn't actuall kd, he was staggered, which can happen to anyone if the punch lands right. Jackson also stopped In-Chul Baek in 3 who was 41-1 going in and went on to become a world champion.

Last edited by sas6789; 07-13-2012 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:31 AM   #30
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I know people are going to jump down my throat here but Nigel Benn. Please don't get me wrong, he no doubt had good power, but the way some people go on it's as though he had the one punch power to KO any MW/SMW in history, but that wasn't the case. The fact is early on against stiffs he showed big KO power with a one punch finish but when his competition level stepped up that stopped. Most of his stoppage/ko wins later on against the stronger opposition were more down to a good beating over a few rounds rather than one punch finishes. Before someone leaps out at me, i'm not denying he was a big puncher because he was, just not as big as some like to make out.
Eubank said he was by far the hardest puncher he faced and didnt Dewitt say the same ?Infact Dewitt likened it to being hit by a car in the face, something like that.
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