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Old 07-21-2012, 11:35 AM   #1
SuzieQ49
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Default Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Old 07-21-2012, 11:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Marciano probably had more outright power, but Dempsey was the more dangerous finisher.
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

I would say Marciano had the bigger one punch power.
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

I would say Dempsey had more one punch potential but Marciano lined up his punches better, was more relentless and was the better fighter.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Marciano, much stronger puncher that knocked top contenders out. Dempsey didn't seem to score too many clean KOs against the best
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Dempsey didn't seem to score too many clean KOs against the best
Only four fighters ever made it past the sixth round against him at world level.

I think his credentials as a KO artist are prety secure.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Only four fighters ever made it past the sixth round against him at world level.

I think his credentials as a KO artist are prety secure.
This is what I'm talking about.

His tear up to the title was pretty epic. Unfortunately, none of it remains on film, if it was filmed at all, so it's not the image most have of Dempsey.

Even dismissing the ham and eggers, he had Brennan KO6, Flynn KO1, Pelkey KO1, Fulton KO1, Levinksky KO3 (the first time he was counted out), Carl Morris KO1, Gunboat Smith KO3... The Fulton KO was the game changer for him and a great result.

Granted some of these were on their way down, but Jack demolished all of them, with multiple KD's and many times in fashions which they had never been beaten.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

One fight ko is shown where Marciano kos Rex Layne with a right hand...Great punch.
Dempsey's one clip shows him battering a much bigger, much stronger Jess Willard
in Toledo 7 times to the floor...Today he would have had a one round ko after 3 knockdowns...What if Dempsey's 1 rd ko of Fred Fulton was shown, or his one round ko of gunboat Smith, or his one round ko of Carl Morris, or Dempsey's other 23 first round kos were shown on this thread, would not the evidence somehow be fairer...? I think so...
Did Marciano ever ko a much larger man than he ? No. Marciano hit Archiue Moore with many punches and still couldn't ko old Archie Moore...
All what i post is not to deflate Rocky Marciano whom I saw batter Carmine Vingo in 1949. But Rocky took so many rounds to stop a punching bag like Don ****ell in a tko in 9 rounds, that I can't envision a much faster Jack Dempsey at his best, not doing the job
in a round or two...Both Dempsey, and Marciano were great punchers but Dempsey punched so much faster and more accurately than the Brockton Blockbuster, and speed
"kills" in boxing...
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Impossible to separate these two in term of punching power.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Did Marciano ever ko a much larger man than he ? No.
Actually he did.

Johnny Skhor was 6'4 220lb, Big Bill Wilson was 6'2 230lb...

Joe Louis, rated # 1 in the world, had 4" in height and a 35lb weight advantage on Marciano. Signifigant advantages at a world class level. I would argue the 37 year old Louis was clearly more skilled than any 200lb + fighter Dempsey ever defeated.

Quote:
. Marciano hit Archiue Moore with many punches and still couldn't ko old Archie Moore..
Huh? Archie Moore was knocked out...put down for the 10 count. By the way, that "old" man Archie had just defeated the # 1 rated 29 year old powerful cuban Nino Valdes.

Quote:
But Rocky took so many rounds to stop a punching bag like Don ****ell in a tko in 9 rounds, that I can't envision a much faster Jack Dempsey at his best, not doing the job
I said specifically the 1951 Rocky Marciano, not the 1955 volume punching Marciano.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Actually he did.

Johnny Skhor was 6'4 220lb, Big Bill Wilson was 6'2 230lb...

Joe Louis, rated # 1 in the world, had 4" in height and a 35lb weight advantage on Marciano. Signifigant advantages at a world class level. I would argue the 37 year old Louis was clearly more skilled than any 200lb + fighter Dempsey ever defeated.



Huh? Archie Moore was knocked out...put down for the 10 count. By the way, that "old" man Archie had just defeated the # 1 rated 29 year old powerful cuban Nino Valdes.
OK. in 1



I said specifically the 1951 Rocky Marciano, not the 1955 volume punching Marciano.
Ok, 1951 just BEFORE the Rex Layne fight Rocky Marciano decisioned a
mediocre journeyman named Red Apllegate who won 12 bouts while losing 16 bouts,and being kod 3 times...What did Marciano do against Applegate ? Rocky won a 10 round decision and never floored Red Applegate...I loved Rocky Marciano, but as with virtually every boxing expert of the 1950s who saw the prime Dempsey fight and watched Rocky
as champion, pick the much quicker puncher Jack Dempsey to have beaten Marciano both at their bests...Shouldn't all those boxers and trainers of the 1950s who saw them both fight and chose the faster destructive puncher
Dempsey to win, be more closer to the truth than today's deniers. ?
I think so...
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Quote:
Ok, 1951 just BEFORE the Rex Layne fight Rocky Marciano decisioned a
mediocre journeyman named Red Apllegate who won 12 bouts while losing 16 bouts,and being kod 3 times...What did Marciano do against Applegate ? Rocky won a 10 round decision and never floored Red Applegate.
At least Marciano didn't get knocked out cold in 1 round by a 37 year old fireman with no skill
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Marciano had more power. Dempsey was probably a sharper, more accurate puncher.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Ok, 1951 just BEFORE the Rex Layne fight Rocky Marciano decisioned a
mediocre journeyman named Red Apllegate who won 12 bouts while losing 16 bouts,and being kod 3 times...What did Marciano do against Applegate ? Rocky won a 10 round decision and never floored Red Applegate...I loved Rocky Marciano, but as with virtually every boxing expert of the 1950s who saw the prime Dempsey fight and watched Rocky
as champion, pick the much quicker puncher Jack Dempsey to have beaten Marciano both at their bests...Shouldn't all those boxers and trainers of the 1950s who saw them both fight and chose the faster destructive puncher
Dempsey to win, be more closer to the truth than today's deniers. ?
I think so...
I hear you, Burt, but nobody ever picked Rocky to do anything. Too slow, too short, too stubby. The first time he went in to New York to get real training he was told to catch a bus home, meet a nice girl and start having kids. And all he did was beat everyone put in front of him, almost all in emphatic fashion. He was a surprisingly subtle fighter whose abilities elude those who can only see the obvious. But at the end of the day, one obvious and very telling fact remains... 49-0.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I hear you, Burt, but nobody ever picked Rocky to do anything. Too slow, too short, too stubby. The first time he went in to New York to get real training he was told to catch a bus home, meet a nice girl and start having kids. And all he did was beat everyone put in front of him, almost all in emphatic fashion. He was a surprisingly subtle fighter whose abilities elude those who can only see the obvious. But at the end of the day, one obvious and very telling fact remains... 49-0.
S, then by your standards, Marciano at 49-0 beats a Joe Louis 68-0 or an Ali
56-5, and a Mayweather beats a Robinson, etc. ? Seamus you know better...Boxing is all about styles between top fighters and I believe along with every writer, boxer of Dempsey's and Marciano's time, that Jack Dempsey could do everything that the shorter Marciano could do with much more explosive speed...Shouldn't you be on the side of the boxing fraternity who saw them both, and almost to the man chose Dempsey over Rocky ? If the vast majority of boxing experts who saw them both at their bests PICKED Marciano to whip Dempsey, I would be picking Marciano....
You and I are not God...Cheers...
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