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Old 07-21-2012, 03:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by PetethePrince View Post
Marciano had more power. Dempsey was probably a sharper, more accurate puncher.
Well said.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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S, then by your standards, Marciano at 49-0 beats a Joe Louis 68-0 or an Ali
56-5, and a Mayweather beats a Robinson, etc. ? Seamus you know better...Boxing is all about styles between top fighters and I believe along with every writer, boxer of Dempsey's and Marciano's time, that Jack Dempsey could do everything that the shorter Marciano could do with much more explosive speed...Shouldn't you be on the side of the boxing fraternity who saw them both, and almost to the man chose Dempsey over Rocky ? If the vast majority of boxing experts who saw them both at their bests PICKED Marciano to whip Dempsey, I would be picking Marciano....
You and I are not God...Cheers...
Bert, you have a wonderful and consistent capacity for missing the point...

My point was that Marciano was continually underrated throughout his career, and not mildly so, but drastically! He was told repeatedly by supposed "experts" that he no chance at real success in the sport, even after he had a few dozen fights under his belt. So, when you or your cadre of experts rate him as less than Dempsey in any regards, I must take it with a grain of salt.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Bert, you have a wonderful and consistent capacity for missing the point...

My point was that Marciano was continually underrated throughout his career, and not mildly so, but drastically! He was told repeatedly by supposed "experts" that he no chance at real success in the sport, even after he had a few dozen fights under his belt. So, when you or your cadre of experts rate him as less than Dempsey in any regards, I must take it with a grain of salt.
I'm trying to help you out, because "salt" is bad for your blood pressure...
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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I'm trying to help you out, because "salt" is bad for your blood pressure...
In the end I believe its too close to call.

Just watched a bio of Rocky done with Peter, his sister, Angelo Dundee and a couple others. It just reminded me what an epic journey he had and what force of will he exhibited... And all with those supposed limitations. One of the greatest badasses, in my humble opining.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Dempsey has a better left hook, Marciano the better right hand. I'd say Marciano is more concussive power

BUT power is the most overrated ability in boxing

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
S, then by your standards, Marciano at 49-0 beats a Joe Louis 68-0 or an Ali
56-5, and a Mayweather beats a Robinson, etc. ? Seamus you know better...Boxing is all about styles between top fighters and I believe along with every writer, boxer of Dempsey's and Marciano's time, that Jack Dempsey could do everything that the shorter Marciano could do with much more explosive speed...Shouldn't you be on the side of the boxing fraternity who saw them both, and almost to the man chose Dempsey over Rocky ? If the vast majority of boxing experts who saw them both at their bests PICKED Marciano to whip Dempsey, I would be picking Marciano....
You and I are not God...Cheers...
Well he couldn't he had an inferior right hand to Rocky's and wasn't as adept at breaking a counter puncher down

I'm not sure he's that much quicker either, Rocky is deceptively quick.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:10 PM   #21
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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power is the most overrated ability in boxing
Truer words were never spoken, but that does not apply to these guys!
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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In the end I believe its too close to call.

Just watched a bio of Rocky done with Peter, his sister, Angelo Dundee and a couple others. It just reminded me what an epic journey he had and what force of will he exhibited... And all with those supposed limitations. One of the greatest badasses, in my humble opining.
Rocky was not as tough as a guy in my neighberhood, who happens to be a peanut vendor....So TOUGH, he whistles while his nuts roast ! That's tough.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Rocky was more of a bludgeoning type, Dempsey was the more explosive, accurate one.

For my money, the evidence speaks for itself- Dempsey's history of fast KO's and sudden KO's gets him the nod here over Rocky's grind-you-down style. Both were exceptional punchers so I couldn't argue against someone picking Rocky.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Truer words were never spoken, but that does not apply to these guys!
Important but only as important as having speed and timing to land accurately, punch selection, stamina to continually deliver powerful punching, footwork that makes space for leverage and the ability to set up punches either by combinations, feints or manoeuvring an opponent physically

There have been allot bigger punchers than both who couldn't do allot of those things. Both men were proficient at most of these
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Jack Dempsey was the bigger puncher IMV by a clear margin.

Marciano and Dempsey weighed around the same 185-190lbs.

The Manassa Mauler KOd guys that weighed 240 250lbs. Whether they were great fighters or not that is a big weight difference.

Marciano wore guys down that weighed under 200lbs Walcott, Charles Moore. Even a shot Joe Louis went 8 rounds.

Its not clear if Rocky could have taken out Firpo or Willard at all. He may have worn them down over the long haul but doubtful that he is gonna explode the way Dempsey did.

Jack Dempsey was a freakish puncher. U can question some things about his career but his power was authentic.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Jack Dempsey was the bigger puncher IMV by a clear margin.

Marciano and Dempsey weighed around the same 185-190lbs.

The Manassa Mauler KOd guys that weighed 240 250lbs. Whether they were great fighters or not that is a big weight difference.

Marciano wore guys down that weighed under 200lbs Walcott, Charles Moore. Even a shot Joe Louis went 8 rounds.

Its not clear if Rocky could have taken out Firpo or Willard at all. He may have worn them down over the long haul but doubtful that he is gonna explode the way Dempsey did.

Jack Dempsey was a freakish puncher. U can question some things about his career but his power was authentic.
nice post. don't necessarily agree but well thought out post
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Jack Dempsey was the bigger puncher IMV by a clear margin.

Marciano and Dempsey weighed around the same 185-190lbs.

The Manassa Mauler KOd guys that weighed 240 250lbs. Whether they were great fighters or not that is a big weight difference.

Marciano wore guys down that weighed under 200lbs Walcott, Charles Moore. Even a shot Joe Louis went 8 rounds.

Its not clear if Rocky could have taken out Firpo or Willard at all. He may have worn them down over the long haul but doubtful that he is gonna explode the way Dempsey did.

Jack Dempsey was a freakish puncher. U can question some things about his career but his power was authentic.
Every point valid, but every one could theoreticaly be chalked up to Dempsey having better punching/finishing technique.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Every point valid, but every one could theoreticaly be chalked up to Dempsey having better punching/finishing technique.
could be but just the same, his level of competition could also be discussed. size or not, fred fulton is likely MUCH easier to tag clean than the walcott than marciano fought
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Every point valid, but every one could theoreticaly be chalked up to Dempsey having better punching/finishing technique.
Technique is part of the package though. Thats part of punching. The finishing is the mentality.

They did have different styles. Jack was like a Tiger being let out of a cage when the 1st round started.

Marciano was a little more conventional.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:09 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Jack Dempsey was the bigger puncher IMV by a clear margin.

Marciano and Dempsey weighed around the same 185-190lbs.

The Manassa Mauler KOd guys that weighed 240 250lbs. Whether they were great fighters or not that is a big weight difference.

Marciano wore guys down that weighed under 200lbs Walcott, Charles Moore. Even a shot Joe Louis went 8 rounds.

Its not clear if Rocky could have taken out Firpo or Willard at all. He may have worn them down over the long haul but doubtful that he is gonna explode the way Dempsey did.

Jack Dempsey was a freakish puncher. U can question some things about his career but his power was authentic.
Willard was as shot as Louis and older I believe and more innactive

Shot Louis>Shot Willard

And Firpo was a never was who wasn't bigger than Louis
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