Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

[janitor]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

1) didn't know that about fulton, good to know

Fulton was the "not quite formed Wladamir Klitschko", of his day.

He could dominate anybody at the top level, but they might just starch him.

2) same with tyson, and all but a few got demolished. for first round fury, i don't put dempsey above tyson...i consider them even

To be fair though, a big guy who could hold a lot could last the distance against Tyson.

Dempsey seems to have had subtle ways of unraveling the ball of wool.

3) fair point but that doesn't mean he was that good. he was #1 but still sloopy, uncoordinated with little more than size and a jab

You will not find another example of a guy Dempsey's size, demolishing elite superheavyweights so quickly.

Or a guy 15lbs heavier for that matter!

He was prety unique.

[Nightcrawler]

[quote=janitor;13404236]

Fulton was the "not quite formed Wladamir Klitschko", of his day.

He could dominate anybody at the top level, but they might just starch him.



To be fair though, a big guy who could hold a lot could last the distance against Tyson.

Dempsey seems to have had subtle ways of unraveling the ball of wool.



You will not find another example of a guy Dempsey's size, demolishing elite superheavyweights so quickly.

Or a guy 15lbs heavier for that matter!

He was prety unique.

1)i've heard he was painfully effective at what he did. fulton was ugly but pretty decent for his day

2)but dempsey didn't fight full time fighters the size of tyson's opponents. quality aside, the job bonecrusher did against tyson may well have worked against dempsey

3)the best description i've heard is panther...the fucker was fast, strong and vicious. he was one of the best at what he did

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by janitor

Yes but Willard was just demolished, while Louis put up a competitive fight.

Firpo was undoubtedly a top 2 contender when he fought Dempsey.

Willard and Firpo are both fighters who Marciano would have needed rounds to stop.

So what, past prime Louis was obviously 5 or 6 levels above past prime Willard skills and ability wise

Firpo no2 contender based on what? He was a hype job and the Michael Grant of his era

Originally Posted by janitor

Yes and no.

Fulton might not have had the defensive genius of Walcott, but it is almost unheard of for a fighter Dempsey's size, to reach up to and destroy a tall defensive fighter like Fulton.

Mike Tyson never did it.

Tyson knocked out many men the same size or near the same size as Fulton.

Originally Posted by janitor

Fulton was the "not quite formed Wladamir Klitschko", of his day.

He could dominate anybody at the top level, but they might just starch him.

Fulton was a hype job not near to Wlad's skills, in future compare him to Michael Grant, that's his level, although Grant would beat him

Originally Posted by janitor

To be fair though, a big guy who could hold a lot could last the distance against Tyson.

Dempsey seems to have had subtle ways of unraveling the ball of wool.
.

Unraveling hand picked wool? Unless it was a 170lb Gibbons who he couldn't penetrate? Or Prime Miske? Or Tunney? Or Meehan?

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by he grant

Dempsey was a far more dangerous two handed puncher. He KO'ed much bigger, tougher guys. No doubt Rocky was brutal as well but Louis was a shell, Walcott a cruiser, Charles a blown up light heavy as was Moore ... I never saw Rocky pound out a massive KO over talented , large heavy in prime condition ... his best KO to me was the shot that put out Layne. Terrific shot. Dempsey is reported to have a dozen of those himself but just not on film ...

Dempsey was a far more dangerous two handed puncher.

He KO'ed much bigger, tougher guys.

Oh really, tougher guys? Please name them

I never saw Rocky pound out a massive KO over talented , large heavy in prime condition

Neither did Dempsey

but Louis was a shell

Louis in a shell was still better than fulton, willard, and firpo

Dempsey is reported to have a dozen of those himself but just not on film ..

Dempsey didn't produce 1 punch knockouts like Marciano did

[SuzieQ49]

[quote=janitor;13403817]

The best big guy that Marciano beat was Johny Shkor.



That is all that I was trying to argue.



Yes, they do.

But we still have to not Dempsey's uncanny ability to destroy very good very big fighters very quickly.

1. Wrong. Marciano knocked out 254lb Humphrey Jackson in 1 round in 1949.

2. Very good big fighters? The big men Dempsey beat were complete jokers. A 1951 Joe Louis at 6'2 213lb age 37 would have beaten all of Dempseys big men by wide unanimous decision with his left jab alone.

[Saintpat]

Bottom line is it doesn't matter -- either Dempsey or Marciano lands his best punch against most foes and they're done. It's like asking which would hurt more, a wrecking ball hitting you in full swing or a bus running you over at 70 mph -- either way you're dead.

[dmt]

Marciano with the right hand
Dempsey with the left hook

anyone who claims otherwise is simply biased.

And what's with all the dempsey threads, so many of them in just a few weeks?

[MadcapMaxie]

Dempsey was more explosive and faster his punchers were probably sharper while Marciano's were slower, more thudding and blunt. 1 shot power goes to Marciano i reckon.

Using the argument that Dempsey hit harder because he could blast out big, slow, unskilled totem polls doesn't mean much, Louis KO'd every single bigger man he faced usually within the first 4 rounds and in devastating fashion however the most trouble he had was with smaller and more skilled guys, which is the bulk of Marciano's record. Marciano was also naturally the bigger man and put everything behind his shots, he had great rotation.

[ETM]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Willard was as shot as Louis and older I believe and more innactive

Shot Louis>Shot Willard

In terms of greatness yes. Joe Louis`s name carries much more weight. At that point Louis was a worn down one handed fighter. He had no right hand in that bout. None. Yet he still took Rocky Marciano`s punches for 8 rounds and Joe was never noted for his chin.

Willard was 6-7 250lbs in fighting shape. Not a great fighter but Rocky might have had trouble punching up at him. Even Dempsey couldnt walk straight at him. He had to use his foot quickness and angles before he moved in.

Firpo was both taller and heavier than even the pudgy late Joe Louis who fought Marciano.

There are others big heavyweights that Dempsey crushed like Morris and Fulton.

Basically Dempsey KOd Big Heavyweights.

Marciano KOd some great cruiserweights.

Not saying that makes Dempsey greater than Marciano but this topic is about the better puncher.

[Legend X]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

Rocky was not as tough as a guy in my neighberhood, who happens to be a peanut vendor....So TOUGH, he whistles while his nuts roast ! That's tough.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by ETM

In terms of greatness yes. Joe Louis`s name carries much more weight. At that point Louis was a worn down one handed fighter. He had no right hand in that bout. None. Yet he still took Rocky Marciano`s punches for 8 rounds and Joe was never noted for his chin.

Willard was 6-7 250lbs in fighting shape. Not a great fighter but Rocky might have had trouble punching up at him. Even Dempsey couldnt walk straight at him. He had to use his foot quickness and angles before he moved in.

Firpo was both taller and heavier than even the pudgy late Joe Louis who fought Marciano.

There are others big heavyweights that Dempsey crushed like Morris and Fulton.

Basically Dempsey KOd Big Heavyweights.

Marciano KOd some great cruiserweights.

Not saying that makes Dempsey greater than Marciano but this topic is about the better puncher.

Louis wasn't noted for his chin Only Schmelling, who was a puncher had stopped him and he took 100s of punches in that fight

Have you seen Marciano-Louis - Louis outboxed Marciano for the first part of the fight. You make the mistake of looking at the number of rounds it takes to stop someone as a power equation, it can be it took that long to land your best punches against an opponent

Willard wasn't 250lbs in shape, his prime shape was 220-230 and he was inactive for 3 years and 37. Louis was a 10 fight winning run

If a fighter doesn't have the skills to punch back it's easier to give them a severe. Less skilled fighters can't punch back or defend themselves aswell.

Dempsey didn't put Firpo or Willard to sleep with 1 punch either did he? He threw 100s of punches at them in those fights

[SuzieQ49]

Firpo was both taller and heavier than even the pudgy late Joe Louis who fought Marciano.

pudgy? Joe Louis was far more ripped at 37 years old than Luis fat Firpo was

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

pudgy? Joe Louis was far more ripped at 37 years old than Luis fat Firpo was

You should know by now that it was impossible for Marciano to beat anyone who wasn't fat, old, or complete crap.

We all know that Louis was fat, old, and not capable of beating some bum off the street by the time Marciano got his hands on him.

Look at him, so unconditioned and totally incapable of fighting.

[Ricky42791]

Marciano had more raw power but dempsey was more explosive and sharp

[steve w]

My two all time favourites, I feel Rocky weathers the inevitable frezied onslaught and takes Jack out, both hammer fisted and great chins what is not to like about these guys? They hit as hard as each other, but I like Rocky's angles.