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Old 07-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #61
janitor
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
So what, past prime Louis was obviously 5 or 6 levels above past prime Willard skills and ability wise
Why would you even try to compare them?

This is a styles argument, and beating an old Louis, proves nothing in terms of your ability to beat superheavyweights.

Louis would have looked like a midget next to Willard.

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Firpo no2 contender based on what? He was a hype job and the Michael Grant of his era
An unfair comparison.

He did at least have significant wins, and they were not down to a fluke.

In reality, he might well have been the No1 contender!

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Tyson knocked out many men the same size or near the same size as Fulton.
Who that was ranked?

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Fulton was a hype job not near to Wlad's skills, in future compare him to Michael Grant, that's his level, although Grant would beat him
He was not a Michael Grant though.

For damn sure he had his weakneses, but he was fighting other contenders, and holding onto his slot for a long time!

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Unraveling hand picked wool? Unless it was a 170lb Gibbons who he couldn't penetrate? Or Prime Miske? Or Tunney? Or Meehan?
All small defensive fighters.

All the guys who gave Dempsey trouble were small technicians.

Big guys got liquidated quickly.

It's a styles thing!
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:26 PM   #62
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
1)i've heard he was painfully effective at what he did. fulton was ugly but pretty decent for his day
That is the only way to describe it!

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2)but dempsey didn't fight full time fighters the size of tyson's opponents. quality aside, the job bonecrusher did against tyson may well have worked against dempsey
Would it though?

The one thing Dempsey unarguably had over Tyson, is that he was a lot better on the inside.

Perhaps he takes more rounds to stop ost of Tysons opponents, but manages to stop Smith and Tucker?

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3)the best description i've heard is panther...the ****er was fast, strong and vicious. he was one of the best at what he did
That is how I see it.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:28 PM   #63
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Janitor's point is strong, many great fighters have had difficulty punching down on smaller opponents, whist not a huge height difference between the two, it would not help Jack.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:22 PM   #64
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Dempsey was so ahead of his time its scary. Very strange to see an old fighter with modern skills.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #65
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Dempsey..faster..better technique...better balance...better snap.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:42 PM   #66
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Marciano
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:11 PM   #67
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Dempsey was so ahead of his time its scary. Very strange to see an old fighter with modern skills.
That defense of his ain't too sharp. He might as well have a welcome mat out for right hands.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:04 AM   #68
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Dempsey himself answered that question when he stated Marciano could KO a man with one punch where he needed more than one. I think Dempsey had tremendous power and so did Louis but Marciano was a freak of a puncher.

Marciano,Louis,Dempsey, who really wants to get hit by any of them.

Last edited by Bummy Davis; 07-24-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:49 AM   #69
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Marciano for sure....ex Joe Walcott and Joe louis...Rocky I believe had more brute force power than jack anyway
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:39 AM   #70
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

Wasn't Marciano's biggest opponent weighing 254lbs last time I checked? So he fought his share of big guys whether they were skilled or not is another thing
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:42 AM   #71
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

[quote=SuzieQ49;13407030]
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Originally Posted by janitor View Post

1. Wrong. Marciano knocked out 254lb Humphrey Jackson in 1 round in 1949.

2. Very good big fighters? The big men Dempsey beat were complete jokers. A 1951 Joe Louis at 6'2 213lb age 37 would have beaten all of Dempseys big men by wide unanimous decision with his left jab alone.
Didn't know you already pointed out number 1 lol great minds
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:23 AM   #72
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

In terms of size, althought I don't think power = size, Dempsey has it.

However I do think Jack was the harder hitter. I doubt the Rock would have caught Tunney the way Dempsey did, I also doubt he would have destroyed Willard as brutally as Dempsey did. Maybe that is more to do with styles though. I also think Dempsey would have taken care of the older fighters Marciano fought, a lot quicker and in more brutal fashion - Louis, Moore, Charles e.c.t

Jack also has the record for the most first round KO's in history.

My pick would be Dempsey
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:50 AM   #73
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Dempsey would have taken care of the older fighters Marciano fought, a lot quicker and in more brutal fashion - Louis, Moore, Charles e.c.t
I don't know, these older fighters were much more skilled, better fighters than anyone dempsey beat(save Sharkey, punch to the balls)...I could easily see one of these men taking a decision off Dempsey. They were old, but not that old...they were all ranked # 1 in the division.


I doubt Dempsey goes 6-0 against these men, I think he drops one fight.

Quote:
I doubt the Rock would have caught Tunney the way Dempsey did, I also doubt he would have destroyed Willard as brutally as Dempsey did
Rock would have beaten Tunney, unlike Dempsey.

Willard was a big punching bag, a dumb oak tree. Marciano would have needed a lot less knockdowns than Dempsey did to put willars away for good.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:44 AM   #74
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
I don't know, these older fighters were much more skilled, better fighters than anyone dempsey beat(save Sharkey, punch to the balls)...I could easily see one of these men taking a decision off Dempsey. They were old, but not that old...they were all ranked # 1 in the division.


I doubt Dempsey goes 6-0 against these men, I think he drops one fight.



Rock would have beaten Tunney, unlike Dempsey.

Willard was a big punching bag, a dumb oak tree. Marciano would have needed a lot less knockdowns than Dempsey did to put willars away for good.
Yeah, on second thoughts I could see Charles beating Dempsey, Walcott has a good shot but I doubt it. Moore and Louis aren't mobile enough to keep away from him, seeing as they were on the slide anyway, Jack would overwhelm them. Walcott or Charles could upset him.

Marciano vs Tunney. I'd like to have seen that. Movement vs Pressure, which is better here?
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:59 AM   #75
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Default Re: Bigger Puncher: 1951 Rocky Marciano or 1919 Jack Dempsey?

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Marciano vs Tunney. I'd like to have seen that. Movement vs Pressure, which is better here?
I just don't think Tunney is battle tested enough at heavyweight to pick him over prime ATG heavyweights. He had, what, 4 fights at the heavyweight limit? It would have been interesting to have seen Gene stick around and fight guys like Schmeling, Sharkey, Godfrey
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