How highly do you rate Sonny Liston as a puncher?

[dyna]

Originally Posted by the cobra

Louis aside, I think he's got as good a case as any for being the best overall puncher in Heavyweight history.

Wasn't Louis more of a combo puncher and not a devastating single puncher?
Not saying a single punch would be weak, but not ATG strong.

Also against modern people it is better to compare Louis H2H with cruisers.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by round15

Very good.

I would think that for heayweights, you have to include Liston in the same conversation as Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Marciano, and Dempsey.

Power hitting heavyweights who could finish fights with either hand.

Just so.

Fighters who can hit as hard as these guys are ten a penny.

Fighters who can finish like them, are as rare as hens teeth!

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by dyna

Goes for Butterbean too.
They put a WWE wrestler against him in a match.
The wrestler had no head movement and was one the ground after 2 punches.
The second time he got a clean it hit he was really down, not just down for 10 seconds. A minute gone by and he still had that glass look in his eyes when he sat.

WOW....good points....I usally don't think of Butterbean as on par with Liston...But you have me convinced.

[janitor]

[quote]

Originally Posted by dyna

Wasn't Louis more of a combo puncher and not a devastating single puncher?
Not saying a single punch would be weak, but not ATG strong.

To a large extent that is true.

What Louis did was as muchg down to technique as power. Even the damage that he inflicted might have been partly due to the fact that he caught people unexpectedly, and they didn't react.

Also against modern people it is better to compare Louis H2H with cruisers.

Not necisarily.

Louis was arguably the best destroyer of big heavyweights, that the division ever saw. He might have been a cruiser, but the guys he was destroying wern't.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

WOW....good points....I usally don't think of Butterbean as on par with Liston...But you have me convinced.

I don't say he is.
But if you get caught clean they will both finish you off.

[dyna]

[quote=janitor;13403355]

To a large extent that is true.

What Louis did was as muchg down to technique as power. Even the damage that he inflicted might have been partly due to the fact that he caught people unexpectedly, and they didn't react.



Not necisarily.

Louis was arguably the best destroyer of big heavyweights, that the division ever saw. He might have been a cruiser, but the guys he was destroying wern't.

Just like Roy Jones Jr being so fast?

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by janitor;[B

13403330[/b]]Just so.

Fighters who can hit as hard as these guys are ten a penny.

Fighters who can finish like them, are as rare as hens teeth!

second time this week i've heard that, are hens teeth a real measure of rareness??

anyway, liston had the hardest jab in heavyweight history and a damn fine left hook. I'd rate him in the top 15 at heavyweight overall for punchers...off the top of my soon to be drunk head i'd have:

Top Tier (power):

in no order...

Shavers
Foreman
Lewis
Baer
Louis

Top Tier (delivery and power):

in no order....

Louis
Lewis
2nd Foreman
Tyson
Wlad (suck it)

Liston would probably feature in my top 10/15 for the second list. Pure power no, but his delivery was spectacular

[dyna]

Originally Posted by dyna

I don't say he is.
But if you get caught clean they will both finish you off.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shU_rtDDPk[/ame]


The video I was talking about

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

WOW....good points....I usally don't think of Butterbean as on par with Liston...But you have me convinced.

[janitor]

[quote=dyna;13403362]

Originally Posted by janitor

Just like Roy Jones Jr being so fast?

Yes.

The way that a fighter reacts to a punch by rolling with it is likley to nulify some of the damage.

If you get caught with something you don't see coming, you are going to take the full force.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL

He got me somewhat wrong, I think.

[ETM]

There was a fighter ScrapIron Johnson who had the misfortune to fight Sonny Liston in the mid `60s and a young George Foreman in the late 60s as well as a young Joe Frazier. All great punchers.

According to an article from the Ring Mag years ago ScrapIron said that Sonny Listion hit him harder than anyone.

So If he is hitting harder than Foreman and Frazier then Liston has to be at or near the very top.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by janitor

No he's not.

Not in terms of raw power at any rate.

Please define what you mean by "raw power".

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL

I would confidently say Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Baer and Lewis were harder hitters.....and imo Dempsey and Marciano were also better punchers.....

I think he probably hit harder than Louis and Baer, better puncher than Baer too. He probably turns his shots over better than Foreman, but Foreman would outright have much more strength in his punches, same with Lewis. Tyson much more explosive puncher

He was very good with both his straight right and left hook too, which makes him more dangerous

I think he'd beat Dempsey/Marciano

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by dyna

Wasn't Louis more of a combo puncher and not a devastating single puncher?.

No.

He could utterly destroy durable fighters with a single punch.