Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight

sonnylistonmich · 07-23-2012, 01:38 AM

Being a great Liston fan, and a medical professional of 25 years, it is my understanding that the Ali hernia issue was known before the fight and planned on being repaired before its rupture 2 days before the fight. however, I need hard evidence for that so all you Liston experts , Please help me out

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 09:14 AM

Fake, phony and fraud.

The reason that the 'mystery hernia' developed,

The new 'Tax Laws' came into effect, meaning that fighters would be allowed to keep more of their money in 1965.

So the Monday Night - November 16, 1964 bout 'scheduled for the 'Boston Garden' was changed to May 25, 1965.

Check the release of the 'Tax Laws'.

The Tax Reform Act of 1964, cut the top marginal tax rate to 70%, meaning the two fighters and managers
would keep more of their money in 1965.

That sir, is a 100% True Fact.

Legend X · 07-23-2012, 12:27 PM

I've always found it odd that such a fit and beautiful young specimen (as Ali was at that time) would be afflicted with a hernia.

Boston would have been a better venue than Lewiston, Maine though.

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend X

I've always found it odd that such a fit and beautiful young specimen (as Ali was at that time) would be afflicted with a hernia.

Boston would have been a better venue than Lewiston, Maine though.

Not Really Legend X,

As of Friday, November 13th - the pre-fight 'ticket sales' before the Monday Night
on November 16, 1964 bout were 'pathetic, as less than 2000 tickets had been purchased.

Also, the 'closed circuit' operations were reporting 'dismal ticket purchases, leading the
promoter (Fred Barnes) to question 'out loud' whether the fight between Cassius Clay and
Sonny Liston II was really worth it.

Legend X · 07-23-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Not Really Legend X,

As of Friday, November 13th - the pre-fight 'ticket sales' before the Monday Night
on November 16, 1964 bout were 'pathetic, as less than 2000 tickets had been purchased.

Also, the 'closed circuit' operations were reporting 'dismal ticket purchases, leading the
promoter (Fred Barnes) to question 'out loud' whether the fight between Cassius Clay and
Sonny Liston II was really worth it.

Oh yeah, I said the venue would have been better.
The sad fact is no one wantedthe fight.

After the first farce in Miami, I don't blame them.
And they turned out to be right. I pity anyone who bought a ticket to the thing that occurred in Lewiston, Maine.

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 01:17 PM

Hurry, get your tickets early....

BillB · 07-23-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend X

Oh yeah, I said the venue would have been better.
The sad fact is no one wantedthe fight.

After the first farce in Miami, I don't blame them.
And they turned out to be right. I pity anyone who bought a ticket to the thing that occurred in Lewiston, Maine.

They witnessed history being made. That fight had garnered more comment than any fight since Dempsey-Tunney's long count.

I would have liked to have seen it.

Longhhorn71 · 07-23-2012, 05:40 PM

The Nov. 1964 "hernia" fight fell victim to the Harry Houdini "shot to the gut" syndrome.

Saintpat · 07-23-2012, 11:21 PM

First-round knockouts by Jimmy Ellis and Amos Lincoln on the undercard were worth the price of admission.

Notably, there was a live card in Boston that date, four fights in the Garden. I'm guessing it was a 'iive undercard' to the title fight on closed circuit.

Legend X · 07-24-2012, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillB

They witnessed history being made. That fight had garnered more comment than any fight since Dempsey-Tunney's long count.

I would have liked to have seen it.

True enough.
It would have been worth it in hindsight.

Senor Pepe' · 07-24-2012, 09:41 AM

The complete fight card for the Monday Night - November 16, 1964 at the Boston Garden
was cancelled.

Both fighters - Cassius Clay and Sonny Liston were reimbursued for 'training expenses',
and the promoter 'Fred Barnes' was covered for losses by a 'insurance loss policy'.

Later, a Fred Barnes Promotion representative said that the cancellation of the bout
was 'the best thing that could have happened', otherwise the fight promotion would
have taken 'the proverbial bath'.

The box office ticket sales were dismal, and the closed circuit theatre managers were
reporting minimal 'early ticket purchases'.

In other words, nobody cared about the Cassius Clay vs. Sonny Liston II 'rematch'.

Soon after, Boston District Attorney - Garrett H. Byrne started to investigate deeply into this
fight promotion. What he discovered, was disturbing, as multiple contracts and numerous
agreements in back-room dealings were uncovered, leading all the way back to the original
fight in Miami Beach in February 1964.

07-23-2012, 01:38 AM	#1
sonnylistonmich newbie Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 17 vCash: 500	Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight Being a great Liston fan, and a medical professional of 25 years, it is my understanding that the Ali hernia issue was known before the fight and planned on being repaired before its rupture 2 days before the fight. however, I need hard evidence for that so all you Liston experts , Please help me out
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07-23-2012, 09:14 AM	#2
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight Fake, phony and fraud. The reason that the 'mystery hernia' developed, The new 'Tax Laws' came into effect, meaning that fighters would be allowed to keep more of their money in 1965. So the Monday Night - November 16, 1964 bout 'scheduled for the 'Boston Garden' was changed to May 25, 1965. Check the release of the 'Tax Laws'. The Tax Reform Act of 1964, cut the top marginal tax rate to 70%, meaning the two fighters and managers would keep more of their money in 1965. That sir, is a 100% True Fact. Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 07-23-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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07-23-2012, 12:27 PM	#3
Legend X Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: London Posts: 3,105 vCash: 1000	Re: Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight I've always found it odd that such a fit and beautiful young specimen (as Ali was at that time) would be afflicted with a hernia. Boston would have been a better venue than Lewiston, Maine though.
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07-23-2012, 01:17 PM	#6
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight Hurry, get your tickets early....
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07-23-2012, 05:40 PM	#8
Longhhorn71 Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 13,945 vCash: 1000	Re: Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight The Nov. 1964 "hernia" fight fell victim to the Harry Houdini "shot to the gut" syndrome.
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07-23-2012, 11:21 PM	#9
Saintpat Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,204 vCash: 1000	Re: Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight First-round knockouts by Jimmy Ellis and Amos Lincoln on the undercard were worth the price of admission. Notably, there was a live card in Boston that date, four fights in the Garden. I'm guessing it was a 'iive undercard' to the title fight on closed circuit.
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07-24-2012, 09:41 AM	#11
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: Nov 16 1964 The Hernia Fight The complete fight card for the Monday Night - November 16, 1964 at the Boston Garden was cancelled. Both fighters - Cassius Clay and Sonny Liston were reimbursued for 'training expenses', and the promoter 'Fred Barnes' was covered for losses by a 'insurance loss policy'. Later, a Fred Barnes Promotion representative said that the cancellation of the bout was 'the best thing that could have happened', otherwise the fight promotion would have taken 'the proverbial bath'. The box office ticket sales were dismal, and the closed circuit theatre managers were reporting minimal 'early ticket purchases'. In other words, nobody cared about the Cassius Clay vs. Sonny Liston II 'rematch'. Soon after, Boston District Attorney - Garrett H. Byrne started to investigate deeply into this fight promotion. What he discovered, was disturbing, as multiple contracts and numerous agreements in back-room dealings were uncovered, leading all the way back to the original fight in Miami Beach in February 1964. Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 07-24-2012 at 09:59 AM.
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